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Logos View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:08
This supposed god can not be observed in any way; so yes, as sleeper said, it's just irrelevant to anything that goes on in real life.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:13
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

"This atheist is not opposed to the idea of a deity/creator, but there is no chance of it happening. And if there was one, he would destroy his "oeuvre" just seeing those speaking in his name" Hi Sean! Could you please develop that?

Sure (although I do not have that much time)

 

If God existed (in the way religions see God as a so-called good entity), we can be sure that he would hate being adored and prayed upon. And certainly he would hate those helping their cause by using cheating, deceiving, lying, converting, using violence and other means to enforces rules he obviously does not care for. Those 10 commendments existed well before Moses wrote them down (even those relating to gods), since they are the base of communal/societal life, that even monkeys uses (but have not written down[IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>).  It is the ABC of living together. The rest is crap added.

 

Now this "creator" of the universe (provided there is less than one chance in a zillion he exists), has created thousands of galaxies,suns and planets, where life probably exists in forms we do not even imagine (for all we know mineral life could exists in other places and the Uranium atom being the most common element in that form of life >> just try to imagine that there is more chance of this happening than a creator existing[IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>) light years appart. Do you actually think, this creator would care what happens on this planet, and certainly take time to talk to a few chosen ones?

 

Or are those claiming they talk to the creator simply not trying to mystify others and using this "fact" as a way to promote himself and up his profile to get advantages and imposes rules that make him the benefeciary or at least puthim in a central position and hand out advices that should be followed since he has the answers. This was the case from the early religions or shamanism days when the shamans said that volcanoes were gods being angry at the community because they were not obeying what the shaman was preaching, thus invoking fears. And the using of fears and superstitions from the phenomenons one does not understand is creating a power that the religious are all too quick to use. Andthose opposing a different view, were usually put to death or at least banned.

 

Thoose talking to god are generally highly suspicious to me (and not just in the "why them?" mode, but also in does the creator even have a capacity to communicate to his subjects), which does not mean that religious people are a threat in itself.

 

 

 

 

 


Could you please explain why it is you believe the existence of God to be so improbable? (like, one in a zillion).

The rest of your argument deals with different interpretations of god, but does nothing to add weight to the argument there is no god.
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:16
Originally posted by toolsofthetrade toolsofthetrade wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:


Originally posted by toolsofthetrade toolsofthetrade wrote:

Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.

    
You sound more like an agnostic then
By what, having no belief in Dieties (sp?), I thought that was the point of Atheism, lack of belief.To state that one doesnt believe in God is to make a theological statment just like saying that you  believe in God.


You say `i neither believe that god exists or that he doesn't exist'. That's a purely agnostic statement, not an atheistic one.
    


OK, before I make anykind of reply to this I think I need to understand what being an agnostic is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:20
Think I prefer Cynic over Atheist any day. WinkTongue
 
Seriously though, atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious. I am pretty tired of these discussions, but once again, religion isn't science, it can not be measured or observed as an existing phenomenon visible and felt by the senses. Obviously, the empiricists here are not supposed to find God, by their definition, but do have the respect and tolerance for those who have.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:22
Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

Think I prefer Cynic over Atheist any day. WinkTongue
 
Seriously though, atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious.


No it isn't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:25
Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist
The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:26
Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

Seriously though, atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious.


Not being religious does not equal to not understanding the point of being religious.

I was strongly religious for several years earlier in my life, so I know exactly what it's about, which is also exactly why I'm an agnostic today. But people are different.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:28
Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist


Applaude this nonsense if you wish!Ouch


Edited by Snow Dog - December 28 2006 at 08:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:35
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

Seriously though, atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious.


Not being religious does not equal to not understanding the point of being religious.

I was strongly religious for several years earlier in my life, so I know exactly what it's about, which is also exactly why I'm an agnostic today. But people are different.
 
Sure, every man decides his path. I should have phrased this differently, but what I said is the most common case. I feel the biggest mistake atheists make is assume that God is a limitation for free spirited men, and religion is a way to keep people ignorant and stubborn (okay, I know enough religious people who fit in well in this stereotype), developing the "crowd effect" (not sure what it's called in English, just a quick own translation from my mother tongue) - and that is hardly the truth. Anyway, religion is a useless subject for conversation and should not be talked about. I am surprised we have threads full of many pages of responses, but has even one person changed his mind?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:37
Originally posted by toolsofthetrade toolsofthetrade wrote:

I wonder how long it will take for someone to bring up the whole `religion is the cause of all wars' argument
 
If you insist, I have no qualms being the firstBig smileTongueWinkLOL
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by toolsofthetrade toolsofthetrade wrote:

 

Could you please explain why it is you believe the existence of God to be so improbable? (like, one in a zillion).

The rest of your argument deals with different interpretations of god, but does nothing to add weight to the argument there is no god.

 
Well it is simpler to talk of the god/creator fictional character, by using the literary images that religions gave him and therefore use it to dismount its existence than explaining the void or naught in the human's fear space in his brains
 
Simply by balancing out the chance of it happening, once you are aware of all the possibilities of the universe. The fact that the very existence of a creator is highly unklikely, knowing the the universe is simply out of control (the only creator is The Big BangLOL). Should there be a creator on the universe level, you'd guess he would have under control.
 
Should there a be a god, in terms of monotheism or human pictures of gods or deities, you'd guess that he would have the peace and those usurping his words blasted from this lowly paradise or taken his life away.
 
In primitive religions, most deities were feminine, but once monotheism came in so-called god was given a male role, to better control half the human race (which almost voluntary submits since it yearns to be protected in its motherhood), and keep it from the real issues of life.
 
Religion is all about power and those not submitting to it are therefore seen as ennemies and to be discarded.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:41
Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist
 
This is really the point. There is no point to being religious except submitting yourself to a set of beliefs that are enforced upon you and you being more or less receptive to them.
 
And thoise religious beliefs are nothing more than common societal life sense
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:42
Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

I feel the biggest mistake atheists make is assume that God is a limitation for free spirited men, and religion is a way to keep people ignorant and stubborn (okay, I know enough religious people who fit in well in this stereotype), developing the "crowd effect" (not sure what it's called in English, just a quick own translation from my mother tongue) - and that is hardly the truth. Anyway, religion is a useless subject for conversation and should not be talked about. I am surprised we have threads full of many pages of responses, but has even one person changed his mind?


I feel it is important to make a clear difference between faith and religion. I'm against organized religion. It makes people blind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:43
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
Religion is all about power and those not submitting to it are therefore seen as ennemies and to be discarded.


So true, look at the Catholic Church, dominates the Christian World, has tried to dominate the whole world, has immense wealth and power and is lead by a man who is supposed to be Gods rep on Earth!LOL

Thank God England overthrew thw shacles of Vatican law, one thing I've always admired Henry VIII for, weven if he did do it for personal reasons. Now iot seems its Islams turn to try and gain world domination.Cry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:43
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:



Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist
Applaude this nonsense if you wish!


sorry if i insult you, but sometimes IMO i think being atheist is better than being a hypocryte that disguised in religion
    
The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:46
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:


I feel it is important to make a clear difference between faith and religion. I'm against organized religion. It makes people blind.
 
Exactly! IMO Religion and subsequently Church is an institute of power, while Faith is the system of Believes. There is a big difference between The Believer and Religious person.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:



Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist
Applaude this nonsense if you wish!


sorry if i insult you, but sometimes IMO i think being atheist is better than being a hypocryte that disguised in religion
    


I am not insulted at all! But I don't understand the rest of your post..how am I a hippocrit?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 08:59
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:



Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist
Applaude this nonsense if you wish!


sorry if i insult you, but sometimes IMO i think being atheist is better than being a hypocryte that disguised in religion
    
I am not insulted at all! But I don't understand the rest of your post..how am I a hippocrit?

    
i'm not talking about you there. but there are SOME people who pretend that they are religious while they doing evil. i'm NOT saying that religious people are all hypocryte, but there are maybe a few of them that turn up to make the images of the religion itself looks bad
The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 09:02
Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:



Originally posted by kazansky kazansky wrote:

Originally posted by Trickster F. Trickster F. wrote:

atheist is a safe, logically "correct" way of life for people who have not understood the actual point of being religious

   

though i'm not an atheist
Applaude this nonsense if you wish!


sorry if i insult you, but sometimes IMO i think being atheist is better than being a hypocryte that disguised in religion
    
I am not insulted at all! But I don't understand the rest of your post..how am I a hippocrit?

    
i'm not talking about you there. but there are SOME people who pretend that they are religious while they doing evil. i'm NOT saying that religious people are all hypocryte, but there are maybe a few of them that turn up to make the images of the religion itself looks bad


Sorry, I am completely confused now. I thought you were calling atheists hypocrits, which is why you agreed with Trickster. I am not religious.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 09:02


Being atheist/agnostic shows a narrow minded and
down-to-earth state of mind, but being religious is the adhesion to a dogma which, unfortunatly, has not much to do with spirituality.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2006 at 09:03
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



Being atheist/agnostic shows a narrow minded and
down-to-earth state of mind



Down to earth maybe, narrow minded, no not true.
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