The "problem" with prog metal

MikeEnRegalia wrote: salmacis wrote: Yes I said the same- it's not simply a case of 'if you don't like metal, you won't like prog metal'. That's way too much of an over-simplification. Well ... how about "if you don't like metal, you won't like the typical prog metal"? I like metal and this may make it impossible for me to understand how somebody who doesn't like metal perceives prog metal. But I imagine that without liking the things that define metal, you could not like bands like Pain of Salvation, Dream Theater, Opeth, Tool ... not even Maudlin of the Well, who are very different from the "prog metal blueprint" (aka Dream Theater).

I don't like normal metal, but I like prog metal for the most part.  I think it's the increased complexity and musical skill found in prog metal compared to normal metal.  I'm a musician myself, and I really don't care to listen to bands mediocre skills and or boring compositions.  I mean, I don't like normal rock at all, but I like prog.  I just like to hear good musicians playing complex pieces of music, and I just don't find that in most normal rock and metal.  For me, it has nothing to do with the heavy metal "sound", but rather what I feel to be lack of development of that sound in normal metal.  I think prog metal brings the metal sound to its full potential, which is why I like it.

It isn't easy for a 70's prog fan to like prog metal. The change is pretty drastic. That's why they need to get "Mundus Incompertus" by Par Lindh Project.

I personally can't stand most metal, especially when it gets very heavy or into death metal (especially Lamb of God, I detest them). 

But I enjoy listening to some progressive metal bands, like Dream Theater, Riverside, and Tool.  I'm actually trying to move a little bit more in the direction of more progressive metal, but I don't think I could go too far into the genre.  A lot of metal still disagrees with me. 

i must say im surprised theres been intelligent debate about the subject, kudos to all for showing good etiquette, or what not

for me personally most of the bands I enjoy are rarely the front runners of the genre (i dont care for Genesis, I dont care for DT)

personally i think the best bridge to prog metal for the older members is heavier King Crimson and some VDGG

OpethGuitarist wrote: i must say im surprised theres been intelligent debate about the subject, kudos to all for showing good etiquette, or what notfor me personally most of the bands I enjoy are rarely the front runners of the genre (i dont care for Genesis, I dont care for DT)personally i think the best bridge to prog metal for the older members is heavier King Crimson and some VDGG

I always thought it was KC that pioneered prog-metal (particularly on Larks' Tongues)... I've also recently been on a Carmen phase myself, and they sound very metal in some segments of their music.
    

I want to offer one thing to think about.

If I were to introduce anyone I know to a "prog metal" band, the chances are they would refer to it as "metal". They won't say anything like "this is unlike anything else I have ever heard and I can't classify it", like everyone did when Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Genesis, etc, first came out.

So to refer to certain kinds of metal groups as "prog metal" gets some of us wondering, why not just call it metal?

The older I get, the less I think Dream Theater is prog, even though I like them no less for it. On the other hand, a group like Kayo Dot is MUCH closer to being unclassifiable, and therefore a tag such as "Art Rock" or "Prog Metal" does make sense.

To take as many -slightly- out of the ordinary metal groups and attempt to relate them to prog with a tag (prog-metal) seems a tad bit ridiculous. Something like this can, and is, throwing a lot of people off prog-metal. Even myself.
    
I don't like prog-metal, but I do like the stand-out groups, such as Kayo Dot. Even Dream Theater, whether it's metal/prog or not.
    

Edited by NotSoKoolAid - December 23 2006 at 21:52

Sasquamo wrote: NotSoKoolAid wrote: I want to offer one thing to think about. If I were to introduce anyone I know to a "prog metal" band, the chances are they would refer to it as "metal". They won't say anything like "this is unlike anything else I have ever heard and I can't classify it", like everyone did when Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Genesis, etc, first came out. So to refer to certain kinds of metal groups as "prog metal" gets some of us wondering, why not just call it metal? The older I get, the less I think Dream Theater is prog, even though I like them no less for it. On the other hand, a group like Kayo Dot is MUCH closer to being unclassifiable, and therefore a tag such as "Art Rock" or "Prog Metal" does make sense. To take as many -slightly- out of the ordinary metal groups and attempt to relate them to prog with a tag (prog-metal) seems a tad bit ridiculous. Something like this can, and is, throwing a lot of people off prog-metal. Even myself.      I don't like prog-metal, but I do like the stand-out groups, such as Kayo Dot. Even Dream Theater, whether it's metal/prog or not.      Well I don't think there's the "prog" in prog metal because the genre sounds like genre-defining prog, but because it shares the same traits as a lot of prog.  I don't think that makes it less prog, because prog bands rarely have similar sounds, they just share similar traits, the ones listed on this site.  Prog metal is no exception.

    
I like the points you make. Very good ones.

Sasquamo wrote: NotSoKoolAid wrote: I want to offer one thing to think about. If I were to introduce anyone I know to a "prog metal" band, the chances are they would refer to it as "metal". They won't say anything like "this is unlike anything else I have ever heard and I can't classify it", like everyone did when Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Genesis, etc, first came out. So to refer to certain kinds of metal groups as "prog metal" gets some of us wondering, why not just call it metal? The older I get, the less I think Dream Theater is prog, even though I like them no less for it. On the other hand, a group like Kayo Dot is MUCH closer to being unclassifiable, and therefore a tag such as "Art Rock" or "Prog Metal" does make sense. To take as many -slightly- out of the ordinary metal groups and attempt to relate them to prog with a tag (prog-metal) seems a tad bit ridiculous. Something like this can, and is, throwing a lot of people off prog-metal. Even myself.      I don't like prog-metal, but I do like the stand-out groups, such as Kayo Dot. Even Dream Theater, whether it's metal/prog or not.      Well I don't think there's the "prog" in prog metal because the genre sounds like genre-defining prog, but because it shares the same traits as a lot of prog.  I don't think that makes it less prog, because prog bands rarely have similar sounds, they just share similar traits, the ones listed on this site.  Prog metal is no exception.

    

The metal groups that don't sound the same as the rest are the ones that I enjoy most of all. This is why I threw out the name Kayo Dot. Nobody sounds like that! The problem is, Kayo Dot is an extreme minority. It's for groups like these that the term "prog-metal" should have been invented.

Basically, there's too much metal-trash, and all the good metal is being covered up because of this. Too much focus is put on the prog-metal clones. Originality is left behind. Since this is the case, why wouldn't people be angry at prog-metal? What they've heard probably does suck.

The prog-metal groups are, overall, A LOT more incestuous with their techniques than those in Art Rock have EVER been.

Art Rock's where it's at for me, it's so easy to enjoy such diversity, and originality. It's like I'm finding a whole new world each time, and I'm not stuck on the same style of music.

Nor would I be if I listened to Kayo Dot, then Dream Theater..... yet they are both "prog-metal"? There's a win-win situation for me.

Metal sucks usually. It's just anger music for kids going through pubety

Edited by smithers - December 24 2006 at 05:22

Bryan wrote: smithers wrote: Metal sucks usually. It's just anger music for kids going through pubity Thanks for that brilliant insight.