The "problem" with prog metal

I think this is a deceivingly simple question I'm about to ask:

If you don't care much for progressive metal, is it because you simply do not like metal, or because you don't like the result of the combination of metal and prog?  Or is it a different reason?

People who don't like it don't like it because either it's too heavy for them to take and they prefer the lighter stuff(for example some older folks), don't like music that's too fast and technical(admittedly, most prog metal is), or they are just snobs too close minded to even give it a try. First two cases I respect, third one not.

Same with Prog Electronic by the way, it's very similar to prog metal in a way, they are both extremes of prog music and about equally disliked. Prog metal haters just tend to be more outspoken for some reason.


Edited by The Miracle - December 22 2006 at 23:39

I'm willing to bet that, as a a general rule, there are very few people on this site who are big fans of non-prog metal and yet dislike prog-metal as a genre.

My guess is that the two go hand-in-hand. If a person absolutely hates heavy metal like old-school Metallica/Megadeth/Slayer and that sort of thing, the same person is probably unlikely to enjoy Opeth, Tool, and Dream Theater (at least their heavier stuff), for example.

On the flip side, if a person on this site loves non-prog metal, I'm willing to bet that he/she is a fan of at least a few prog metal acts.

I may be wrong though, and I'd be interested to hear of exceptions (personally I fall into the category of liking both "regular" and prog metal).

I think you're generally correct. I dislike metal simply because it's too loud and I fail to see the enjoyment in a bunch of loud, crunching, often repetitive guitars that much of the time are more focused on technical abilities. I also like atmospheres, which is something prog-metal often neglects(although less so since my tinnitus has come about because the high pitched buzzing can easily ruin a nice quiet section). The problem I have with much avant-prog is that it resorts to metal too often, almost as a copout (we can't think of anything next to play, so we'll splice in some ridiculously heavy guitars and screaming! All right!)

I am, however, currently enjoying Kayo Dot, who for me remedy many of prog-metal's problems. The Manifold Curiousity is an amazing song, and I'm probably going to buy Choirs of the Eye soon. This is a big deal for me, because I really, really dislike heavy metal, and I usually have some trouble with more avant-garde stuff. The metal parts (from what I've heard) can be a little extreme, sometimes too extreme, but they are balanced with long soft sections. Most metal lacks this balance, and the metal parts are more natural buildups or extensions, unlike, say Mr. Bungle, which seems to just be throwing stuff together.

The only other prog-metal band that I have liked is LTE, because they have at least some balance and I like the improvisatory feel, I only really like Acid Rain, Another Dimension, and When the Water Breaks. I guess it's good I got LTE 2 though, because it helped inure me to metal so now I can enjoy Kayo Dot. At first it always gave me a headache, but now after many listens only the end of Another Dimension is a little too much (at least I think that's the song).

Edited by Ghandi 2 - December 23 2006 at 00:12

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The only problem I see is that it's too Metal to be really Prog and too Prog to be really Metal, so some musicians get caught in the middle of a loud pompous and guitar virtuoso based  genre and a normally softer but also pompous and virtuoso based genre.   The ego of a Metalhead and a Proghead together, exceed the dimension of any stage.   Iván

    

That's my impression too... I also tend to dislike that metal ego (as now)... I just can't stand the crunching guitars, wailing/growling/grunting vocals, the "louder than thou" attitude or that "rock on dude" vibe...I can really get past some LTE (Biaxident, Osmosis, even great part of When The Water Breaks.. as opposed to Another Dimension, Chewbacca or Paradigm Shift).... but Dream Theater, Opeth, Symphony X, Angra.... no, thank you

I'm not trying to offend anyone... I'm just in a different wave, that's all
    
    

Edited by Chus - December 23 2006 at 01:57

No problem at all thus far, but out of respect to our members who enjoy the genre, can we please ensure this does not become a prog metal bashing thread.

For me, mainstream metal is too predictable, and has a very short shelf life in my collection.  I think that groups like Ten, Emerald Rain and even Stratovarius for instance, pen some great tunes, but ultimately they aren't challenging or complex, and I get bored of them quite quickly.  I know that after 10-12 listens, I won't want to play them any more... maybe that's equally a criticism of me as it it of them.

progismylife wrote: fandango wrote: For me, mainstream metal is too predictable, and has a very short shelf life in my collection.  I think that groups like Ten, Emerald Rain and even Stratovarius for instance, pen some great tunes, but ultimately they aren't challenging or complex, and I get bored of them quite quickly.  I know that after 10-12 listens, I won't want to play them any more... maybe that's equally a criticism of me as it it of them.        I know what you mean about mainstream metal. I was into it for all of 5 months. It just wasn't varied enough. But prog metal has varying elements and that is probably what attracts listeners. I only listen to non-prog metal when I need something to get my energy up when doing exercises and the like.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^  there are interesting non-prog metal albums too. Same as in every genre!

I'm a big fan of traditional metal, including the originals like Iron Maiden and Diamond Head, and the more recent bands like Hammers of Misfortune. I also enjoy most forms of doom metal, although not bands like Anathema or My Dying Bride. Lastly, technical thrash bands like Voivod, Doom and Martyr will never cease to amaze me.

I dislike power-progressive metal because it's too happy and too over-reaching - rarely do I feel that the musicians are as accomplished in songwriting as they'd like to think. This goes double for virtuoso bands like Dream Theater who can play in any style they wish and yet compromise between neo-prog and hard rock - neo-prog simply isn't prog to me (I apologize for this viewpoint but I've sampled plenty of it, finding only UK and Shingetsu worth repeat listens) and likewise, hard rock has a different vibe to that of metal. So overall, Dream Theater and similar bands are billed as something I'd enjoy... by a misnomer.

The early stuff like Fates Warning and Queensryche isn't all that bad and they both have songs that I enjoy, and yet I'd rather listen to true metal or fully progressive rock than place one foot on either side of the river.

There are a few so-called prog metal bands that I enjoy but I find myself categorising them in a different way - for example, Meshuggah are technical thrash, Kayo Dot, MotW and Fantomas are various flavours of avant-garde and bands such as !T.O.O.H.! or Cephalic Carnage are technical death/grind. Katatonia and Anathema's postmelancholic doom rock is about as progressive to me as Coldplay, which is to say not at all. Additionally, I disagree that the "post-metal" subgenre we have here is particularly progressive, not that I don't love Isis.

In summation, prog-metal is a greedy genre that I pick at the edges of, while hating its base "sound". Hope this helps.