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Everlasting ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() Joined: August 19 2006 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Ivan is right from beginning to end
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Ad Astra
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Philéas ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
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Thread resurrection sucks.
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andu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
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well ivan, defining "pop" as a musical genre might be correct, but only inside a discussion concerned on music. still, if you think of the 50s-70s culture as a whole, you'll need to get back to the original sense of "pop", which is much wider and concerns many more aspects of modern culture. in fact, "pop" is a sociological notion (regarding the relation between the artistic object and production/consuming/promoting aspects), while "prog" is an aesthetic notion (a musical style). so, it is correct to involve them both because they don't collide. of course that doesn't mean that the latter definition of "pop" as a musical style is incorrect, but it still is only subsidiary; and myself for example i have to keep this in mind as i deal a lot with the visual arts - remember "popart"? now that was so "prog"!...
![]() ![]() coming back to the initial question, i want to mention the french band AIR, one of my favourite bands and definitely one of the best mainstream acts in the last decade! ![]() |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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andu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
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that is exactly what i meant. by comparing "pop-art" to "pop music" i wanted to get your attention towards the original, wider sense of "pop"; which still IS a sociological notion and, as you also said, shouldn't be applied in other disciplines - except for the case you're having a sociological discussion (inspiration/producing/promotion/consuming) (and not when you're having an aesthetic discussion - style, sound). of course i can't make you think my way and your definition of what you call "pop-music" is correct and i accept it; but you use these notions in a very rigid, almost absurd, manner. for example: "It is not Prog if it's mainstream". think of Pink Floyd: are they prog or are they mainstream? i think they are both. you can't go more mainstream than that with good music. also i didn't say AIR is a part of the progressive rock genre, i have a good understanding of these notions. what i said is that they make a music i'd define as "progressive electro-pop". it should be obvious that by using the notion of "progressive" in a place where it shouldn't normally be as a category, i was trying to forge a (new) definition and not to force an inclusion. ![]() |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Andu wrote: Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 09 2006 at 16:23 |
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lucas ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
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Ivan, the man in your avatar played occasionnally pop on most of his solo albums...
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Yes, that's why he is in Prog Related, because some of his releases were close to Prog and some were not even Prog Related.
Please, an artist is not Prog "per se", an artist creates Prog music or not Prog Music, ELP, Genesis, Yes, Kansas, Tull, etc recorded a lot of non Prog albums.
But this doesn't deny the fact that they also created a lot of 100% Prog Rock albums and tracks.
Iván
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Poxx ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: April 03 2005 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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Check out the 2 first albums of Roxy Music, they are quite solid, and not too poppy. Really nice prog passages throughout.
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andu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
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I
know you’re not trying to include them, but Air is a band that has a
progressive (Adjective) approach to music but not a Progressive Rock
(PROG) band.
it seems like you're trying to correct something i'm saying... but i say the exact same thing as you do. ![]() POP is what you say it is when you refer to it as "POP" (and not as what it literally means, "popular music"); i only wanted to keep the wider reference because i'm not happy with the way you use it. also mainstream can have other meanings, not necessarily one to support your theory (actually quite mine too as i had almost the same position on another thread, i even posted a top hit list from the 70s etc. ![]() Look:
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Philéas ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
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The Pointless War of Opinion rages on...
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andu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
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thread resurrection kicks ass
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Philéas ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
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I hate opinions.
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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DSOTM is a "Rara Avis" they were popular because they were lucky, that's all, they have nothing in common with the top 1973 albums either, not even the other supposedly prog band as The Moody Blues released a Prog album that year because Seventh Sojourn was simply Rock, not Prog:
As you see, the top 1973 albums are mostly by Pop artists like Diana Ross, Elton John, Carly Simon, Al Green, Seals & Crofts, Stevie Wonder, a couple of Rock bands like Alice Cooper and Moody Blues, then Pink Floyd and the rest POP.
That was the mainstream of 1973 in albums with Pink Floyd as an exception.
Iván |
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clarke2001 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 14 2006 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
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"pop" and "prog" are not opposite, because there is no such thing as "opposite to prog" because prog can incorporate everything.
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Trickster F. ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: February 10 2006 Location: Belize Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
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I don't remember posting that...
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sig
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21615 |
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^ the dreaded quoting bug strikes again!
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Trickster F. ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: February 10 2006 Location: Belize Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
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Not sure if the quote is the problem - the post to the right of my name and Jan Transit's picture on the first page of this thread does not evoke any associations or memories to me.
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sig
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21615 |
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^ then it's just a form of "reverse deja-vu" ... happens from time to time. You can't remember all your 3569 posts ...
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eugene ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: May 30 2005 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
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I've seen worse, people tend to forget even more important statements they once had made.
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carefulwiththataxe
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