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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
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Posted: November 23 2006 at 21:21 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Only one question Xtopher:
Why did your post revceived so many replies and mines didn't?
Thanks for the English lessons, but despite your long explanations everybody here knows what you said, you can explain why you used conditional oitalics, etc; but it's clear what you tried to say:
1.- You're angry because DT got more votes in a silly poll.
2.- You called all those who woted against DT in this silly poll, cold hearted and close minded.
3.- You would rather see ELP or Kansas in this poll instead of DT because they would or could took more votes than DT.
4.- You speak in ambiguous language so it can be understood in differebnt ways and I understand it, I work using words and I'm an expert (Sorry for the lack of modesty) understanding when a phrase is used with tha purpose.
As a fact, in your last reply you say:
I did not necessarily negate the fact that they are legendary.
The key word is NECESSARILLY...this implies that it can and and can not be understood as a denial of their legendary status.....THAT'S BEING AMBIGUOUS.
I don't need to have a BA in English to understand ambiguous phrases, I work with lawyers who are experts in this issues.
Again enjoy your Thanksgiving.
Iván
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You just reminded me Ivan why never to get into a debate with you
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: November 23 2006 at 21:39 |
well.... a lawyer he is indeed.... I'm studying law but I haven't learned how to be persistent heheheh... i guess when you get into judicial practice that you are master of arguments
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 23 2006 at 23:17 |
Chus wrote:
well.... a lawyer he is indeed.... I'm studying law but I haven't learned how to be persistent heheheh... i guess when you get into judicial practice that you are master of arguments |
That's true, but believe me something, the forums survive because the debates, as a fact the Forums were created for discussion, as long as we don't reach offences, something I always avoided to do.
Imagine a MUSICAL Forum full of data, facts and no flavour.
Iván
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Hopeless
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 06:51 |
Hmm, from the list i think King Crimson.
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If i have any spelling\grammar mistakes, ignore them. English is only my second language <_<
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 07:04 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Chus wrote:
well.... a lawyer he is indeed.... I'm studying law but I haven't learned how to be persistent heheheh... i guess when you get into judicial practice that you are master of arguments |
That's true, but believe me something, the forums survive because the debates, as a fact the Forums were created for discussion, as long as we don't reach offences, something I always avoided to do.
Imagine a MUSICAL Forum full of data, facts and no flavour.
Iván |
I agree with Ivan here. Primarily at these forums I am looking for information about obscure bands which might be to my likings. But frankly, when I browse through these pages and see everybody in perfect agreement united in endless praise of great (and not so great and downright bad) bands, it seems to be kinda unnatural and pretty boring to me. Thus - long live the debates, as long as opponents listen to each other and endeavour to understand what the other side means.
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carefulwiththataxe
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 11:00 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Chus wrote:
well.... a lawyer he is indeed.... I'm studying law but I haven't learned how to be persistent heheheh... i guess when you get into judicial practice that you are master of arguments |
That's true, but believe me something, the forums survive because the debates, as a fact the Forums were created for discussion, as long as we don't reach offences, something I always avoided to do.
Imagine a MUSICAL Forum full of data, facts and no flavour.
Iván |
No question about it
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Jesus Gabriel
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 20:31 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The worst thing is that the most talented of their members (John Myung) can barely be listened by human ears. |
I couldn't agree more with that statement, that's why I find their live albums more enjoyable than their studio endeavors. John can finally break free of Portnoy's and Petrucci's production and display his skills. I'm a bit biased toward DT and tend to overlook some of their faults but I agree that they are overrated especially Octavarium, an album that was salvaged only by splendid renditions on the Score CD/DVD (though Root Of All Evil and the title track are among my favorite DT songs). They also have become so tight that, paradoxically, they are the loosest they've ever been. "Loose" doesn't mean bad but it hampers the band when Rudess and Petrucci effectively decide the direction the band is traveling during a song. At this point, I wish for the When Day and Dream Unite production because, to me, that displayed each member effectively.
It would be nice if Fates Warning had been deemed worthy of this list. John Arch and Ray Alder are some of the best vocalists in metal; Mark Zonder is a slightly less technical Portnoy + creativity; and Matheos' guitar work is fantastic without being overbearing.
In the end DT do not deserve the credit that many (including myself) heap on the band, but they are the most well known modern prog outfit and when the band clicks live, you will never see a better band. Here's hoping album #9 will take the few good elements of Octavarium and use the qualities of past works to sidestep this stumble.
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Kimoi
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 21:48 |
Dream Theater by a country mile. No offence but they are just a hair-metal AOR band to me.
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Arrrghus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5296
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 21:52 |
Kimoi wrote:
Dream Theater by a country mile. No offence but they are just a hair-metal AOR band to me. |
What planet do you live on?
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Fuzz
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 40
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Posted: November 24 2006 at 22:22 |
I chose Floyd. Not because they're bad -- I just think that they're
overrated. The other bands on the list are better than PF by far. PF's
good, but only when you're in the car or going to bed. All of their
stuff starts to sound the same after awhile and some of it is just
down-right boring. I like them, but more as a classic rock band than a
progressive rock act.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 16:09 |
eugene wrote:
IBut frankly, when I browse through these pages and see everybody in perfect agreement united in endless praise of great (and not so great and downright bad) bands, it seems to be kinda unnatural and pretty boring to me. |
Right Eugene, that's the reason why I stopped visituing band forums, I used to visit a Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd forums, and it was really frustrating when people started to say you're not a real XXXXX fan because you don't loike Invissible Touch or Big Generator (The Pink Floyd forum was formed by less fanboys).
For God's sake, a real fan has a brain, his own sensibility and his own taste, If I ever had joined an ELP forum I would stuill had said that Love Beach and In the Hot Seat (Not to talk about Re-Works ) are terrible albums.
A real forum has to be opened to all tastes and opinions, surely there will be disagreements and arguments but we're not androids with a data disk memory created to like exactly the same music.
I found this in PA and that's why it's my favorite Forum.
Iván
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 16:32 |
Yes and Genesis, probably. Some great moments, but not many, unfortunately.
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 16:41 |
I'd say Prog Archives is one of the most civil and sensible forums for the genre and its bands. I've been on the Progressive Ears one and some posts there get slammed by some very nasty individuals who have nothing better to do. However, some posts on the Genesis forum take the biscuit for sheer closed-mindedness. Some guy said the other day that he didn't deem anyone a 'true Genesis fan unless you liked everything they ever recorded'. Similarly, today I've posted about some people insinuating you are too politically correct if you don't like 'Illegal Alien' and how you are humourless if you don't like that song. I must say, many members over there can see sense that 80s Genesis mostly, simply is rubbish and hasn't aged well (a great post said Genesis doing Illegal Alien was like Beethoven following up his 5th symphony with Agadoo! ) but some are just TOO obsessed. There's people talking about Ray Wilson era B sides and how good they are, and how you are a prog snob if you disagree that 'Invisible Touch' is a great album. (I laughed once when a guy posted how he 'didn't know anybody who didn't like Invisible Touch- I don't know anyone who does, until I went there)
At least here, when an album's rubbish, people will admit to it. But over-reactions over a poll like this are pointless. I do think DT aren't as good as the bands listed- in fairness, 'Octavarium' isn't QUITE as bad as stuff like 'Love Beach', 'Open Your Eyes' and 'Invisible Touch', but for me, DT haven't hit the heights those bands did at their peak.
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 16:44 |
I'm still trying to figure it out...and no, I'm not going to just put Yes.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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#1floydfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 19:26 |
why does every one only like symphonic on this website prog metal is the minority here as you can tell on this poll....
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 19:40 |
Rush - just cannot get past Geddy Lee's vocals.
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 25 2006 at 23:42 |
#1floydfan wrote:
why does every one only like symphonic on this website prog metal is the minority here as you can tell on this poll.... |
A few notes:
- You are new, you weren't here when Dream Theater was the latest fashion with ten or eleven threads in the main page of the Prog Lounge, we had members as my dear friebnd Peter Rideout worried because this was turning into a Prog Metal site or more precisely a DT fan club.
- People here like a lot of sub-genres, in my case I like Prog Folk, Psyche, Space Rock and Fusion almost as much as I like Symphonic and even good Prog Metal bands like Pain of Salvation and Symphony X, what I don't like is Dream Theater.
- Dream Theater does not represent all Prog Metal.
My new 2 cents.
Iván
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: November 26 2006 at 08:46 |
Yes Ivan, I bet if it was another prog metal act up there, the landslide wouldn't be so great. It's because Dream Theater, more than any other act, are shoved in our face as being the be all and end all of modern prog. For my part, I find bands like Tool and Opeth far more innovative and progressive than anything DT have ever done. It is a fair comment, imo, that AOR has influenced their sound a lot and the solos pad out that a bit to make it appear more prog than it actually is. Every time I play 'Images And Words' I'm more than a bit surprised people consider that to be a prog masterpiece when there's so much AOR on there!
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
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Posted: November 26 2006 at 08:54 |
^What's AOR?
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: November 26 2006 at 09:18 |
Adult Orientated Rock, or soft rock, if you will. Bands like Journey, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon etc. I like some bands of this style (not REO though), but not necessarily prog bands doing that. Many of DT's albums I've come across have some AOR ballad like 'Another Day', 'Through Her Eyes', 'I Walk Beside You' etc.
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