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clubsprint 
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 14 2006
Location: Australia
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Points: 19
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 Topic: Careful What You Wish For...
Posted: November 17 2006 at 22:37 |
Prog was mainstream in the late 60's and early 70's as the music industry tended to be run by muisc fans. That changed in the late 70's and big business took over. Luckily for us the the internet happened and it is much easier to get information about non mainstream musical styles. The beauty is the corporates have a hard controling what happens on the net. The 80's were pretty dire as far as trying get information on new bands etc. but somehow I discovered some new stuff at the time through friends and mainly through magazines like Guitar Player as they are less driven by commercial tastes and focus on performance and creative ability. It's not just prog that is locked out of commercial radio/tv these days. Steve Lukather of Toto (and they were huge) said that record companies wont sign a rock band over 30 years old and the radio wont play them. I recently missed their tour of Australia because there was no press at all. Same almost happened when Yes came out, I only caught them because their tour was postponed.
I'd love to see Prog and Fusion and Acid Jazz and etc etc etc more well known and broadcast but I don't think we'll ever see what tends to be more complex music going mainstrem because to most people music is background noise or the soundtrack to other activities. Music like Prog, Fusion, Bebop etc requires active listening and it's just not that important to most people.
I take pleasure when I find someone I can "corrupt" to the fold and they are about. I can play music at work and I've educated a couple of people and turned them on to the real alternative music.
There will always be ebb and flow in the profile of different styles.
There's people out there saying "Man, wouldn't it be great if Death Metal became the mainstream music". Thank go it wont.
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There's no news in the truth and no truth in the news.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65455
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 21:09 |
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Well, in the 70s do you think people who appreciated progressive bands knew how special and short-lived that music would be, or was it simply expected that musicians would always be pushing limits?
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 14:45 |
 Firepuck wrote:
The first three LP's I bought (which I still have) were; Nursery Cryme, Machine Head and Houses of the Holy. |
Excellent, symbolic, choices! 
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jalas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 13:02 |
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oh how I wish that prog were mainstream again. I too young to know what is was like when prog was pop. To many "musicians" in these new pop band just waste perfectly good musical instruments on noise. It hurts to see a gibson Les Paul in the hand of a punk who can't play the thing right.
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yarstruly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 29 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 12:37 |
The T wrote:
That will never happen, because human and economic laws state the complete opposite to the principles of prog.... and of all demanding music in general.... music made for music's sake is, at end, made because the artist wants to express something... mainstream music (and I'm talking really MAINSTREAM music, as in MTV as you named that atrocity of a network) is made because some corporate loons want to get richer and they pay their new money-making-machines a small fare of the profits that he expects to make....
But somehow dreaming that prog was popular.... I may speak only for myself, I may sound kind of a weirdo, but I like being "special" and I like knowing that I listen to more "exclusive" music than what most of the people are listening to.... 6000 millions people, most of them average-minded.... The music you listen to doesn't tell how intelligent you are.... but it does tell how SELECTIVE you are, for if you listen to something that demands you to research, buy online or in alternative places, study at least something of music, then you really care for MUSIC more than the rest...
For the rest music is entertainment... for most of us is an ART (an example: ask a regular person what cinema is for them: most of them will say it entertains them.... true cinema students, those that can bear a Fellini movie, those know cinema is an ART).... I insist: it depends how people perceive music... for some of us is more important than just something you put on when you're driving or, nowadays, when you go everywhere.... we usually (I speak for myself but think most will agree) LISTEN to music, PAY ATTENTION to music.... others have it AS BACKGROUND....
... so in the end, NO, I prefer my prog to remain exclusive...
If it became mainstream, I'd kind of lose respect for it... This may sound stupid and irrational, but I know that would happen....
Points of view are different from person to person.... disagree? Off course, but please with respect. |
BRILLIANT! (With English accent) BRILLIANT post!!!
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DirtyCloud
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 12:36 |
Prog is a concept of music in my opinion, rather than a genre. Maybe the artists are not progressive or exclusive as before, they won't express any great thinking in their music. Instead, they prefer to earn more and busy with releasing meaningless albums, even want to be a pop star. SO, these cannot be called as PROG.
Things could be changed easily, especially the styles of music and the ideas come from artists.
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: No(r)Way
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Points: 31539
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 09:34 |
sleeper wrote:
I wouldnt care if it was popular, but it would have the advantage of being easier to gwt hold of some albums.
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Have to agree there 
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Firepuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 657
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 09:20 |
Atavachron wrote:
Bryan wrote:
Um, prog WAS hugely popular back in the 70s. Yes prior to their 80s sellout weren't some ultra-underground act that sold 500 copies of Close to the Edge. Of course, the music industry has changed quite a bit since then and in this day and age it's pretty unlikely that it'll become massively popular, but those of you claiming it to be "impossible for prog to ever be commercially acceptable" are apparently forgetting something.
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Yes, quite right. There was a time when Yes, Tull, ELP, Crimson and others were in the top twenty for months...ahh, what a glorious time.
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Too true!
I grew up in the 70's and listened to FM radio almost exclusively. These were the years I first started my music collection. I was lucky as a teenager to be able to afford to buy 1 record a month so thank you to progressive rock being almost mainstream.
Of course we didn't have the internet, streaming music, mp3s, etc. so our choices were limited.
It was cool at the time to listen to FM radio and especially some of the university radio stations that were around back then. We would listen to these stations when we got together with friends. If not for prog being played on the radio extensively I may not have developed my love for this music.
Once my friends and I started building our record collections we would get together to listen to them. Radio started to take a back seat. The first three LP's I bought (which I still have) were; Nursery Cryme, Machine Head and Houses of the Holy.
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Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 07:59 |
Cristi wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
What if prog ruled the world? Would you be pleased if your cherished music continuously ran on MTV and mainstream radio, or do you prefer prog's lower-profile status? Not sure if I can really decide myself...help me out here |
Prog's lower profile status works GREAT for me, I wouldn't be glad/pleased/happy/excited to see my fave prog artists on heavy rotation on TV. I think prog music has resisted for so long due to this special status that you mentioned. |
Prog hasnt resisited, its been ignored deliberatly by mainstream record labels, music channels, press and radio.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 45140
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 07:57 |
Atavachron wrote:
What if prog ruled the world? Would you be pleased if your cherished music continuously ran on MTV and mainstream radio, or do you prefer prog's lower-profile status? Not sure if I can really decide myself...help me out here |
Prog's lower profile status works GREAT for me, I wouldn't be glad/pleased/happy/excited to see my fave prog artists on heavy rotation on TV. I think prog music has resisted for so long due to this special status that you mentioned.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 07:53 |
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I wouldnt care if it was popular, but it would have the advantage of being easier to gwt hold of some albums.
As for why it was popular in the 70's, many of the record labels were looking for the next Beatles so gave the bands the freedom to explore. By the end of the 70's many of the bands had already established themselves as decent sellers but new bands were under presure to conform to more mainstream styles so the companies could make money of them quick and easy, a problem that has just got worse over time.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21294
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 05:19 |
The Miracle wrote:
Prog is a more complex genre of music that can not be so widely popular in our siciety, unless the structure of people's brain gets changed, this is impossible. If they do, then it will be a different society entirely, and a much better one at that. But that's another story.
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Agreed. Prog is not just a style of music like Pop or Rap, which just happens to not be popular at the moment. I don't know why it was *that* popular in the early 70s ... I suppose it's a "glitch", encouraged by events like Woodstock, or the hippie movement (not saying that prog fans were hippies though, but it contributed to the phenomenon). Prog is music for the brain - MTV is for mainstream music which is inherently un-intelligent (with the occasional exception, but even then the songs are cleverly designed so they also work for people who listen with their brain turned off).
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 04:48 |
The T wrote:
That will never happen, because human and economic laws state the complete opposite to the principles of prog.... and of all demanding music in general....
For the rest music is entertainment... for most of us is an ART....
... so in the end, NO, I prefer my prog to remain exclusive...
If it became mainstream, I'd kind of lose respect for it... This may sound stupid and irrational, but I know that would happen.... |
Very adept and eloquent in your line of reasoning. I agree with you and yet, in a sense, it is too bad that you are right....
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Bastille Dude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 906
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 00:55 |
cuncuna wrote:
Bastille Dude wrote:
Prog is the true underground music, and I prefer it that way. Good question Atavachron.
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No, South American music is the true underground music. Transnational labels pay for including their artists in our radio shows; TV station comercial partners are continuosly (¿?) excluding our artist to promote crap. Not fair, we can also produce crap.
(¿?) = Not sure if it's actually a word.
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I can understand what you are saying cuncuna, and that is not right or fair. I was being facetious when I compared prog to underground. Mainstream rock press usually gushes over the next "underground" hiphop/punk/emo/goth/deathrock/hardcore or whatever the kids listen to these days, while completely reviling and ridiculing anything remotely talented or progressive. And when I say prog I do mean all the sub-genres of progressive music.
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DEATH TO FALSE PROG!
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006
Location: OH
Status: Offline
Points: 4981
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 00:21 |
Atavachron wrote:
Bryan wrote:
Um, prog WAS hugely popular back in the 70s. Yes prior to their 80s sellout weren't some ultra-underground act that sold 500 copies of Close to the Edge. Of course, the music industry has changed quite a bit since then and in this day and age it's pretty unlikely that it'll become massively popular, but those of you claiming it to be "impossible for prog to ever be commercially acceptable" are apparently forgetting something.
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Yes, quite right. There was a time when Yes, Tull, ELP, Crimson and others were in the top twenty for months...ahh, what a glorious time.
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Yes, being young and a prog fan has its detriments... like my friends think that the opening to Thick as a Brick is stupid  .
Well, all except for one of them, but he likes hardcore dance music more...
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65455
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 23:28 |
Bryan wrote:
Um, prog WAS hugely popular back in the 70s. Yes prior to their 80s sellout weren't some ultra-underground act that sold 500 copies of Close to the Edge. Of course, the music industry has changed quite a bit since then and in this day and age it's pretty unlikely that it'll become massively popular, but those of you claiming it to be "impossible for prog to ever be commercially acceptable" are apparently forgetting something.
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Yes, quite right. There was a time when Yes, Tull, ELP, Crimson and others were in the top twenty for months...ahh, what a glorious time.
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 23:16 |
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Um, prog WAS hugely popular back in the 70s. Yes prior to their 80s sellout weren't some ultra-underground act that sold 500 copies of Close to the Edge. Of course, the music industry has changed quite a bit since then and in this day and age it's pretty unlikely that it'll become massively popular, but those of you claiming it to be "impossible for prog to ever be commercially acceptable" are apparently forgetting something.
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Atomic_Rooster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1210
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 22:57 |
AcostaFulano wrote:
Oh man, It would be damn good to see and listen excellent music everywhere 24/7
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Exactly. Sorry to piss in your Perrier people, but if your enjoyment of a particular type of music depends on its popularity, then you are not really a prog fan, you're just a prog-poser. It would be great if prog ruled the industry. Selling out to commercialism would no longer be a problem, and bands would be able to create the music they want without worrying about finances and catering to popular demand. A world without Owner of a Lonely Heart.
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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AcostaFulano
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 189
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 22:51 |
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Oh man, It would be damn good to see and listen excellent music everywhere 24/7
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 22:30 |
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Prog is a more complex genre of music that can not be so widely popular in our siciety, unless the structure of people's brain gets changed, this is impossible. If they do, then it will be a different society entirely, and a much better one at that. But that's another story.
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