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Topic ClosedShould Miles Davis be in the archives

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Poll Question: Should Miles Davis be in the Archives
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Rorro View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2006 at 17:53

I've got nothing against including miles davis, exept that if he is included then a lot of free Jazz musicians would have the same right to be here, why making a difference? , maybe i'm wrong, please someone correct me.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2006 at 06:54
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Listen to Miles Davis's CBS Years 4 CD boxset and you will believe this 
is
the guy who played bebop, post bop, the cool of Kind A Blue (apparently
the
best selling jazz album ever), did Bitches Brew. Miles Davis
continually
evolved not sitting still, unlike Wyntron Marsalis (who infact has gone
backwards IMHO). But as stated many times in PA, Miles Davis did not
invent
jazz rock fusion - for goodnesssake do some reading and research, e.g a
good
start point is Stuart Nicholson's Jazz Rock A History. Miles Davis's
main
influence on this sub-genre is moving jazz rock fusion (indeed jazz
funk
fusion) from the underground to become a mainstream musical force - but
even
then the great Miles Davis Groups of the late 60's and early 70's often
didn't have lead billing at gigs - check out the other performers and
their
comparative status for the famous Fillmore shows.

With a discography that goes back before 1945, (and all those
compialtion
albums) Miles Davis would prove a real nightmare for inclusion in the
current set up of PA (i.e. inclusion means ever legit album may be
listed Hey, you could list it under the line-up Miles worked with for his
prog albums, he had a different band/quartet etc, for each phase. Anyway 
even b4 his fusion stuff he still experimented with non jazz styles, 
check sketches in spain apparently it had a hug classical influence on 
his Jazz. All in all I think we don't need to list Miles Davis but 
rather Miles Davis and his band/quartet he was working with at the time.Wink
and reviewed), when perhaps we only want to list the post-1968 albums -
and
then if you read the most recent Miles Davis biography covering his
last 10
years of life, then you will discover Davis wanted to and did record
with
Prince and rap artists.Rush also did rap on roll the bones, Genesis's later
albums wern't exactly prog. So that is largely irrelevent.

Personally all for the inclusion of the late 60's and 70's albums, but
they
only reflect a small fraction of Davis's output. Don't forget Davis
discography is vast and when you mean a small fraction you're still 
talking about at least 7 albums not just a couple of prog like David Bowie.


Edited by Cheesecakemouse - May 10 2006 at 06:55



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 04:38
If anyone is curious about finding out more about Miles Davis and his electric period; the official website address is www.miles-davis.com



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 17:16
Just to put it on the surface again. Let the discussion continue!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2006 at 06:48
Yes I bbelieve he shoould be but in prog-related and not jazz-rock.
 
 
Him and Herbie Hancock made some very progressive records in the 70's.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2006 at 08:13
Sean
 
 
If anywhere jazz rock fusion is the obvious place (although I'm hard pressed to identify a jazz rock as opposed a jazz funk or world fusion album - We Want Miles is perhaps the most obvious exception??? - rather than that ragbag of vagueries  unfortunately labelled prog-related. If nothing else jazz rock fusion will be the most obvious place to look for Davis on this site.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2006 at 08:24
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Yes I bbelieve he shoould be but in prog-related and not jazz-rock.
 
 
 
I think about proto-prog better than prog related! His electric period with ("bitches brew" and others) had a major impact in the developement of fusion jazz.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2006 at 08:28

Yes indeed, conSidering that we must include the whole discography, proto-prog fits better, it's not prog-related at all.
    

Edited by oliverstoned - October 30 2006 at 08:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2006 at 08:37

Everything that Miles recorded between 1969 and 1975 is Jazz Rock at it's best and worth inbeing included.  BTW I am working on a Prog coulured Miles Davis Bio for an eventual inclusion.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 06:10
proto-prog  would also fit me fine
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 09:13
He should be included, but both proto prog and prog related definitions refer to "rock" bands. I think it would be good to just let him be presented as a jazz artists, not a rock musician. Thus jazz rock wouldn't be a good choice either IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 09:24
May be there is a case to create a special category for very special musicians such as Miles Davis, which argubly don't fit into established categories. I would be very much against his inclusion in proto-prog and related. e.g. Extra special musician; any future addition would have to go through this type of debate/soul-searching and argued case before inclusion, before both "expert"  and "lay" concensus is taken.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 11:47
I think he's too "progressive" for progressive rock hahaha.... he's mainly jazz for christ sake... maybe we could also include Coltrane (that would be nice hahaha)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 11:52
Originally posted by FragileDT FragileDT wrote:

Originally posted by memowakeman memowakeman wrote:

Since proto prog and prog related exists, Miles Davis should beconsidered in one of that genres...FragilDT said that he was VERY influential of th Jazz/Fusion scene.. of course i agree, but it makes me think about a kind of sub genre called "Influential  prog" or something...


 

    
Exactly, which is why Proto-Prog exists. As the definition reads:

"Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock. The late 60's was a predominately experimental period for music. These bands were moving in a stream that eventually led to prog. The influence could have come from new sophisticated forms of writing and playing music, recording techniques, new instruments and vocal harmonies to name a few. Some of these bands became progressive rock bands themselves others did not."

Since Jazz/Fusion is a subgenre of progressive rock, Miles should be considered "Proto-Prog."

EDIT: And to Crimson thing: We know that this is a progressive
    rock forum but do you think that "rock" is really the best term to describe the genre?

Bands like Gentle Giant and VDGG or almost any prog band for that matter, have just as much rock influence as classical music and jazz. Progressive rock is a term that has been used and excepted but that doesn't necessarily mean that all of the bands in the genre have to be centralized around a "rock" sound.
 
 I agree with that entirely
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2006 at 06:51
MD belongs here IMO. He was a Jazz musician before '69, after which he not only created a different style that provided inspiration to Jazz-Rock legends trained under his guidance, but also released numerous albums that can only be seen as Jazz-Rock.
 
The Jazz fratenity chastised him for that and it should represent the time from which his albums should be included. "In a silent Way", "Bitches Brew", "Jack Johnson".
 
His previous Jazz output may not fit the site as it is today and a disclaimer to that effect should suffice. Prog-Related is not the place for someone who gave prominence to Jazz-Rock.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 15:39
I just listened to some bitches brew and they surely blend some funk and rock.... unfortunately I found it too "free-style" to actually enjoy it... but surely it can sneak itself here among other jazz-fusion beasts
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2006 at 05:09
Originally posted by Chus Chus wrote:

I just listened to some bitches brew and they surely blend some funk and rock.... unfortunately I found it too "free-style" to actually enjoy it... but surely it can sneak itself here among other jazz-fusion beasts
 
"Bitches Brew" is one of those albums that benefits from repeated listening, for there is so much depth to be found - eventually.
 
To deny recognition in Jazz-Rock is akin to offer a Queen a toilet seat in place of the throne.... Proto/Related suggestions offend enormously.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2006 at 12:38
Originally posted by S Lang S Lang wrote:

Originally posted by Chus Chus wrote:

I just listened to some bitches brew and they surely blend some funk and rock.... unfortunately I found it too "free-style" to actually enjoy it... but surely it can sneak itself here among other jazz-fusion beasts
 
"Bitches Brew" is one of those albums that benefits from repeated listening, for there is so much depth to be found - eventually.
 
To deny recognition in Jazz-Rock is akin to offer a Queen a toilet seat in place of the throne.... Proto/Related suggestions offend enormously.  
 
 Certainly.. I agree with that... his jazz-fusion work can't be denied.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2006 at 12:49
hmmm

a huge fan of his earler jazz works...

have noticed over the years though a big jazz fan I care little for fusion yet he belongs here in jazz-rock. A no brainer in my book.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2006 at 04:55
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Sean
 
 
If anywhere jazz rock fusion is the obvious place (although I'm hard pressed to identify a jazz rock as opposed a jazz funk or world fusion album - We Want Miles is perhaps the most obvious exception??? - rather than that ragbag of vagueries  unfortunately labelled prog-related. If nothing else jazz rock fusion will be the most obvious place to look for Davis on this site.
 
Totally agree with you Dick. I feel that at times Sean(Hugues) is completely off the planet, making comments on the run in order to review another artist(s) - and I don't mean to offend here. To suggest that Proto, or Related is suitable to MD is hard to digest.
 
BTW, We Want Miles is a fantastic double album and the tune "Jean-Pierre" was copied by McLaughlin, Jan Akkerman, Pat Metheny, John Scofield and perhaps many more.


Edited by S Lang - November 17 2006 at 05:00
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