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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:02
Every band in Proto-Prog and Prog Related ought to go in my opinion. Shame I can't make it happen... I will have to start a site of my own.
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:04
If you remove the band, you also remove the reviews which people have spent time and effort writing. Not to mention the work which was done to add the band and their albums in the first place.
 
Is that fair?
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:18
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

If you remove the band, you also remove the reviews which people have spent time and effort writing. Not to mention the work which was done to add the band and their albums in the first place.
 
Is that fair?



Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

In my opinion that explanation isn't good enough. If the admin team avoids removing a band because they fear people will get angry the system doesn't work. The admins should apologise for any inconvenience and be able to explain to the upset reviewers that the action was taken because the band in question was deemed unsuitable for the site by the majority of the members (who must have some knowledge of what's progressive and what's not, since they listen to progressive music). If the admins can't offer an explanation they ought to be replaced by others who can (not at all insinuating that I ought to be promoted to admin in case any of you were wondering). I'm sure that in some cases, the number of people who will be upset is larger if a band is left on the site than if it's deleted.
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Points: 758 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

If you remove the band, you also remove the reviews which people have spent time and effort writing. Not to mention the work which was done to add the band and their albums in the first place.
 
Is that fair?
 
No, it isn't.
 
It will always be debates of who are worthy of a place in PA. Everybody have differnet opinions so the last words must of course go to the owner of the site.
 
IMHO every band who have ever been mentioned as progressive, even by mainstrem media (especially by them), is worthy of a place at least as Prog-related. Then it's up to the owners and collaborators if they think the band is more than just related.
 
The term Prog-related is quite problematic too, and I think there should be a greater distinction, graphically, between the related bands and the prog bands, i.e. mark the related bands in yellow instead of orange.
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Points: 4318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:26
None. I use this sites because of the information; not to validate the art forms.
¡Beware of the Bee!
   
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Points: 758 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:31
Originally posted by cuncuna cuncuna wrote:

None. I use this sites because of the information; not to validate the art forms.
 
Well said cuncuna.
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Points: 4252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:31
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

Every band in Proto-Prog and Prog Related ought to go in my opinion. Shame I can't make it happen... I will have to start a site of my own.
 
 
Good idea - i will visit your new site and ask......"where are The Beatles, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Queen and Wishbone Ash?" they were important to the development of Prog and should be here - you're only showing half the picture!!LOL
 
 
 
 


Edited by mystic fred - October 29 2006 at 11:33
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:34
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

Good idea - i will visit your new site and ask......"where are The Beatles, Iron Maiden, Queen and Wishbone Ash?" they were important to the development of Prog and should be here - you're only showing half the picture!!LOL


This is my view of the subject:

Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:


The history of progressive music is certainly interesting and even important, but I still don't think that we need to include particularily influential bands in the archives. An article about the origin of Prog Rock and progressive music in general, pointing out some of the more influential bands and records, would be sufficient.
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:52
Rest assured, bands will not be removedWink
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 11:58
I can accept that, if you back it up with a better explanation
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bhikkhu View Drop Down
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 13:23
Originally posted by UtUmNo1 UtUmNo1 wrote:

The reason I ask is that it seems to me that the realm of prog/proto/related is growing at such a rate that soon there won't be any music other than R&B and boybands that fall outside of the prog and/or related genre.
 

For me, to get the ball rolling, I would drop the newly appointed Mastodon off the lists. Sure, they're metal and sure they don't sound overly generic, but a few intricate riffs and a jazzy sounding drummer don't make progressive metal for my mind.


I can't see how it could be growing at such and amazing rate. Especially since there has been a moratorium placed on those genres, while we concentrate on the backlog of prog bands.


Of course, I still got New Kids on the Block, and James Brown in before that happened.   






    
    

Edited by bhikkhu - October 29 2006 at 13:35
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Atkingani View Drop Down
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 13:35
I don't know if it happens in other countries, but for instance, here in Brazil, when we learn about the Discovery of the Americas, by Columbus, we study all previous efforts, the technical developments, the need for spices and other products, the political situation in Europe then, the menace from the Otomans, etc. We study also the Natives, that were here before the land was (re)discovered and the attempts made by other people to colonize parts of the land (nordics, mainly).
 
I think the example is well applied when the issue is Progressive Music (in fact, for any issue you wish). Hence, proto-prog must stay.
 
For the prog-related bands, I believe that the explanation provided by PA speaks by itself. Smile


Edited by Atkingani - October 29 2006 at 13:36
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 13:44
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I can accept that, if you back it up with a better explanation
 
Because that is the policy of the site.
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 14:02
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Because that is the policy of the site.


That's better! Smile
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 14:06
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

I don't know if it happens in other countries, but for instance, here in Brazil, when we learn about the Discovery of the Americas, by Columbus, we study all previous efforts, the technical developments, the need for spices and other products, the political situation in Europe then, the menace from the Otomans, etc. We study also the Natives, that were here before the land was (re)discovered and the attempts made by other people to colonize parts of the land (nordics, mainly).
 
I think the example is well applied when the issue is Progressive Music (in fact, for any issue you wish). Hence, proto-prog must stay.


We can apply the example you give without having those influential bands included on the site. We can write articles about them and how they influenced Progressive Music. We all know classical music influenced Prog, yet no classical composers can be found on the site.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 14:10

I would go with specific cases:

1.- Agnus Dei: Austrian NEW AGE music:

Quote
album cover AGNUS DEI: reiki-1: heavens gift

Meditative piano & keyboard tunes, bridged with ocean sounds to allow the energy to flow freely and leading to deep relaxation. The nearly 73 minutes continuously playing music and waves are a wonderful support for all Reiki Touch and massage therapies.

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album cover AGNUS DEI: reiki-2: infinite mind

A very unique, especially desingned CD for all Reiki practitioners with at least the 2nd degree, which offers a wonderful, exactly timed musical support for remote Reiki sendings of 15 and 20 minutes.

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album cover AGNUS DEI: gaia

A lovesong to earth that pairs the impressive soundscales of Viennese Pianist Gerald Krampl on the CD with the visionary poetry of his late wife Hilde in the enclosed bi-lingual bonus booklet.

  read more and hear it or add to your cart

album cover AGNUS DEI: angelos

Angelprayers expressed through music and written poetry. Neo-Classic New Age piano/keyboard music on the CD accompanied by spiritual poems about ten angels in the enclosed booklet gently invite your mind to meditative reveries.

  read more and hear it or add to your cart

album cover AGNUS DEI: merlyn

Mythical, romantic New Age piano/keyboard music on the CD accompanied by an esoteric fantasy poetry printed in the enclosed bonus booklet. An imaginative New Age fantasy tale in music and poems gently guides your mind on a meditative journey.

  read more and hear it or add to your cart

album cover AGNUS DEI: lemuria

Meditative, romantic New Age piano/keyboard music on the CD accompanied by an esoteric fantasy balladry printed in the enclosed bonus booklet. An imaginative New Age fantasy tale in music and poetry ently guides your mind on a meditative journey.

  read more and hear it or add to your cart
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei2
 
Was included as Symphonic and we sent the band to Prog Related, I believe they shouldn't be here.
 
2.- Bjorn Lynne: Here I repectfully disagree with my teammate HT who finds the some Prog moments in his music deserve the invclusion, (Not totally disagree because there are some moments), but after reading his auto biography, honestly I still believe he shouldn't be here, he has been sent to ELECTRONIC after an hours negotiation with HT (Hey we debate things inside the team and not always agree):
 
Quote About me:

I was born and grew up in Norway, Scandinavia, but I have spent much of my adult life living and working in England as a music composer, producer, and sound designer.

After an active life in the underground Amiga demo-scene, where I was somewhat tongue-in-cheek known as Dr Awesome / Crusaders, I started writing music for commercial projects, mostly Amiga games, around 1991.

My music brought me to the UK in 1995 and since then I've been composing, producing and recording music for large and small projects, from handheld video games to large planetariums. I write custom made music for companies, and I also sell non-exclusive licenses to my already existing music, a catalogue which now comprises about 300 music tracks in various styles and genres.

I consider myself lucky to have been able to make a good living on my music. I've written telephone ringtones for BT (British Telecom), ambient music for TV, some of which has featured on BBC 1 and many other stations world wide, and been able to work in a wide variety of styles including progressive rock, jazz, funk, ambient, solo piano, experimental, relaxation / meditation, electronic, trance and techno, hip-hop and more.

I live with my wife and our daughter, a stone's throw from the ocean in Stavern, a beautiful small Norwegian coastal town.

Please get in touch with me if you would like me to give you a no-obligation price quote for music, sound effects or related audio work.

 
As HT I believe some of his albums have SOME Symphonic elements but we add artists for a career, this guy is a merchandiser of music, writes whatever a client requests doesn't matter if we talk about ringtones, Jazz, Funk, Techno, Dance, Hip Hop, New Age, Meditation, etc.
 
If some albums are Prog (I dobt he has a 100% Prog album) add them to various genres as Andrew Lloyd Webber's couple of works added, but I don't believe Bjorn Lynne has the profile of a Prog musician.
 
Iván
            
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Atkingani View Drop Down
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 14:12
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

I don't know if it happens in other countries, but for instance, here in Brazil, when we learn about the Discovery of the Americas, by Columbus, we study all previous efforts, the technical developments, the need for spices and other products, the political situation in Europe then, the menace from the Otomans, etc. We study also the Natives, that were here before the land was (re)discovered and the attempts made by other people to colonize parts of the land (nordics, mainly).
 
I think the example is well applied when the issue is Progressive Music (in fact, for any issue you wish). Hence, proto-prog must stay.


We can apply the example you give without having those influential bands included on the site. We can write articles about them and how they influenced Progressive Music. We all know classical music influenced Prog, yet no classical composers can be found on the site.
 
Yep, but I was talking about the cauldron that produced the navigations, not the history of the entire Western Europe. Proto-prog is the cauldron that originated prog-rock. Smile
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Philéas View Drop Down
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Points: 6419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 14:56
I see your point, we can do without classical composers, but in my opinion Proto-Prog bands don't need to be on the site either as they aren't 100 % Prog. Like I said, a detailed article describing Prog's background and birth, with references to influential bands and albums, would be better.

By the way, I still haven't seen a good argument for why having the bands on the site is better, I've only seen attempts to derail the discussion. Wink
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 15:04
I believe Proto Prog is essential.
 
A movement or a musical genre is not born ijn one second or with one album, it's aprocess an evolution, we must understand at least the inmediete prefecessor to understand why it evolved into something.
 
Proto Prog bands are part of this process, already have Prog elements and for that reason it's important to know them.
 
Prog Related is just another name for almost Prog bands or bands from other genres who share ome elements with us, in this case we could debate but, they don't harm unless included in a 100% sub-genre.
 
Iván
            
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bhikkhu View Drop Down
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2006 at 15:05
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

I see your point, we can do without classical composers, but in my
opinion Proto-Prog bands don't need to be on the site either as they
aren't 100 % Prog. Like I said, a detailed article describing Prog's
background and birth, with references to influential bands and albums,
would be better.

By the way, I still haven't seen a good argument for why having the
bands on the site is better, I've only seen attempts to derail the
discussion.


    
Ok, here is your argument. I like to know the origins, and that is one of the reasons I came to this site. That also includes finding out about the bands that are being referenced. I would be unsatisfied if there was only a blurb in an article. I want the same amount of info as other bands. If they are important enough to discuss, they deserve equal treatment.





    

Edited by bhikkhu - October 29 2006 at 15:05
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