Way to reduce # of 5 star ratings |
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1655 |
Topic: Way to reduce # of 5 star ratings Posted: October 22 2006 at 23:01 |
Well I will probably be alone in this topic but here goes.
There is a lack of balance in some reviewers rankings. Not necessarily the collabs, who generally do a good job of keeping a balance. But there are many instances where reviewers will just give 5 stars to everything they rate, having 12 5-star rated albums and having rated no other albums, which really makes their ratings null and void in my opinion, as their is obviously no difference in their opinion between any albums. Theirs no weight to a rating if you think everything is extremely superb. Maybe the site could incorporate some kind of balancing system, say to where only 50% of your ratings can be for 5 stars. That'd be a huge step in balancing things in my opinion. All of these reviews are valued, as they help improve the site, but some judgements of where to draw the line should be made. Surely not everything can be essential to progressive music in one's mind. I know this would be nearly impossible to account for, but it was just a thought, as I've almost come to see the current ranking system virtually useless due to the extreme amount of 5's that are given for everything. (yes, i know rankings don't matter) |
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Australian
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3278 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 02:05 |
I agree, I see many reviewers who have a vast majority of their reviews five stars. I try to keep mine fair and weighted, I hope that they are in your eyes. |
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1655 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 02:34 |
most definitely Australian, me i have about 10% of mine as 5 stars and I'm hoping to keep it around that way. I think it helps cause it serves to actually give value and purpose to your ratings, rather than having everything you've reviewed/listened to be a perfect album, which obviously is not the case, barring that an individual has some sense of preference
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2006 Location: Belize Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 04:29 |
People don't think "everything is awesome", it's just many of us, myself included, prefer to rate albums they actually really like (and if you remember that people also prefer to listen to the music they enjoy, it becomes even clearer).
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 04:46 |
I agree with you OG, and I think it was a good move to bring up this topic for discussion in its own thread. The true masterpieces of Prog are few in comparison to the vast amount of albums on this site, and hence the five star ratings should be relatively few aswell.
A way to avoid the problem would be to limit the ability to review albums to members with a Prog Reviewer or other collaborator/admin rank, as they often are the most knowledgeable (an opinion I've reached by comparing collaborator reviews to guest reviews). I can see the problems with this system, but I think it would work better. Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice my reviews and my ability to review albums to get some order and sense in the ratings. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 04:47 |
I agree Iván. I don't think I have a "bad" album in my entire collection, but I do have albums that I'd rate around 3/5, but none lower than that.
I don't buy music I'm unlikely to like. Also, even bad albums (mostly), have some good elements, so I don't think giving an album a 1 is a good decision. I am not a huge fan of Dream Theater, but if I listened to an album of theirs in full, I'm sure I'd find merits and it's obvious they're talented musicians, so I couldn't give a DT album a 1. due to those reasons. I am currently lacking reviews and that is due to mainly me being somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to writing reviews and also due to ratings. I want to rate virtually all Van der Graaf Generator albums as a 5, but at the same time, I feel this is the wrong thing to do... I also have a few albums in my collection that are 4/5 star albums, but they get more plays than a lot of 5/5 albums. I prefer some 4/5 albums over 5/5 albums. An example of the above is "Starless and Bible Black". It's not as good an album as "Red", but I personally prefer it to it. |
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 04:53 |
Yep. I've probably rated 30% a five star here. That does not mean I think 30% of the albums in the Archives are masterpieces. I could spend a day and give about 500-600 albums a three star, but I guess I won't bother. Besides, it would be easier to give lower ratings if halfs was possible. |
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 04:57 |
That's the other problem Rocktopus.
A lot of albums in my collection are 4.5/5 and my own personal feeling is that I should round up to a 5, rather than down to a 4. It's mainly personal choice on my behalf. Some 4.5's are 4's and some are 5's. My Astrid Proll review shows that I rated it a 4/5, but I personally think it's a 4.5, but in this particular situation, I've rounded it down to a 4, as it's a debut album by a relatively unknown band (in which I have been promoting). If others start to rate it a 5/5, then maybe I'll change my ranking, but I don't want to set a precedence with a new album. Edited by Geck0 - October 23 2006 at 04:57 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21455 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 05:06 |
The problem is that there are huge differences in the selection of albums of each reviewer ... some choose to only review their favorite albums, some review randomly selected albums, some review their masterpieces + the albums which they think extremely suck (to warn others) ... |
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 05:13 |
To avoid any complications, let me just clarify that this post isn't aimed at anyone in particular and that it isn't supposed to sound negative in any way.
Personally, I think that the only "bad" rating is one star. An album rated two stars, according to how the site defines that rating (Collectors/fans only), might not be very enjoyable for a person who is only a casual fan or a person who is new to the band in question, but for a fan of the band it will be a good album. I rated Gentle Giant's debut two stars, but like I said in my review I don't think it's a bad album at all. As I am a fan of GG, I like it, and I listen to it every now and then. The reason I gave it two stars is because in my opinion it isn't the best GG has to offer, and it's not the best album to start with if one is new to GG (again, in my opinion that is). |
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Neil
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1497 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 05:18 |
I think that Mike has highlighted the problem. If many people only choose to rate the albums that they like or are interested in then there will be a bias towards good ratings.
One suggestion I have would be to nominate albums and then ask members of the site to listen to them and then post a review. That way you would get comments both good and bad and therefore a more balanced view. I know that it isn't quite that simple to organise this but it may lead someone to come up with another better idea.
Neil.
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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 05:22 |
That's a good idea, Heavyfreight! It surprises me that nobody has thought about it yet.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 05:28 |
I can't see it working though.
People are biased with tastes, so someone who dislikes a certain style of prog, will have a biased view when it comes to ranking. Maybe we can ask people to rank and review some of those albums that have little, to no reviews at all? There are many bands in the archives that don't have a single review. They should take priority over big bands. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21455 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 05:35 |
Personally I prefer an absolutely free approach to rating: No guidelines, suggestions etc.. You have a certain scale (0-5, 1-5, 1-10, 1-20 etc) and then you assign a rating to an album just with the simple rule in mind that the rating should be higher than ratings of albums which you like less, and lower than ratings of albums which you like more.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say ... I'm sure that there is no such thing as *one* perfect rating system. So why try to enforce it ... people won't listen and develop their own set of rules anyway. So by assigning deeper meanings to certain steps (like "2 stars = for fans only") all you achieve is to create misunderstandings. 2/5 means "bad", no matter how well you explain the meaning, people percieve it as "below par" intuitively. |
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 08:52 |
What if you only want to review the albums you like the most? I agree with the other statements about not owning bad albums. I don't purchase on a whim like I used to. There is enough information now to get an idea of something before you buy it. This site alone can guide you the right way.
This is why I am actually more suspicious of one star ratings. There was the issue of the person who gave every Beatles album one star. Do you really think he gave each album a thorough evaluation? Edited by bhikkhu - October 23 2006 at 08:52 |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 11:14 |
except an abuse, we can't deal with the people's choice, even if they don't take seriously the balance of the scales from 1 to 5. of course there aren't too many albums of genuine 5 stars and there aren't too many artists having many 5 stars albums (and I understand you view, Opeth, since you yourself give 5 stars very reticently). but we can't just force a so-called or so-wanted correctitude. and neither to change things because of those who seems fishy (as you said, many people act balanced).
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1655 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 12:49 |
it's ok guys, I perfectly understand your point of view
just some thoughts i had wandering around in my head Edited by OpethGuitarist - October 23 2006 at 12:49 |
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 14:32 |
One thing I have asked M@X to look at doing is to show for each reviewer (on their own page) the spread of their ratings. This would look the same as the bar chart shown on each album page. This may help to highlight to some reviewers that they are not using the full range of ratings available effectively enough.
I agree with those who have already pointed out that most reviewers will focus on the albums they love first, so reviewers with only a few reviews will proabbly have an overall higher average of their ratings than those who have reviewed many.
If any particular reviewer does seem to be over generous with 4 and 5 star ratings, feel free to highlight it in the Reviews Discussion thread. It would not be considered a personal attack of any sort to civilly suggest that they are being over generous.
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2006 Location: Belize Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
Posted: October 23 2006 at 15:52 |
I wouldn't agree with that: I used to give lower ratings more often before I became a Prog Reviewer(and obviously I was less experienced at the time), whereas now I feel the necessity to cover more obscure albums I would like to recommend rather than make attempts on criticising music I simply do not comprehend(wish I hadn't posted that TFK review).
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 13:34 |
I agree that this is a problem. Of my 47ish reviews, I believe I've given 5 ***** ratings and 1 * rating. The rest range from 2-4, and **s aren't necessarily bad.
For instance, I rated a Tool album, and my review was essentially this:
It's clearly good, and hear's why: reasons
But I don't like it, so I'll give it a 2.
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