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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: All the King's Men
    Posted: October 24 2006 at 01:52
What is it about England that provided the cradle for progressive rock and has given us such marvelous music since? This is not to minimize all the other nations that have also produced great bands, but there must've been a condition or atmosphere in Britain that sparked the amazing period between about 1968 and 1978...what was going on?     
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Points: 218 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 02:44
Maybe I'm wrong but historically speaking, in the sixties we'd witnessed the so called British Invasion with groups like The Beatles, The Who, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks and so on... I think this was a natural progression and prog groups along with certain other rock ensembles were part of a second wave of the British Invasion. Also, if you listen closely, the sound and style is always different than let's say what U.S. groups ( more soul, Motown and r'n'b oriented ) were doing at that time.
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 02:56
Good answer. Yes, clearly the 60s had a lot to do with it. On the other hand, by about 1971 most English prog showed little resemblance to its post-Beatles brethren and feels as if it all may have occurred without much coaching from Brit-pop.
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Points: 218 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 12:12
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Good answer. Yes, clearly the 60s had a lot to do with it. On the other hand, by about 1971 most English prog showed little resemblance to its post-Beatles brethren and feels as if it all may have occurred without much coaching from Brit-pop.

    Agreed, by that time we were seeing the classic era of prog where groups were tending towards long classical ( if I may use the term ) pieces and musical experimentation seemed to be reaching a peak. FM radio also had some influence because back then, disc jockeys for the "underground" stations would program their own music thus creating the exposure needed for this type of music to grow... Progressive music was being made in Europe but by then the influence started slowly trickling to North America. Must admit though that NA audiences were ripe for this kind of music with jazz-fusion and Zappa finding their niche in our collective lives.
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Points: 4252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 14:30
..it must be something in the water!LOL
 
i think the quirky eccentric British island mentality may have something to do with it, the desire to  want to do something different..?
 
 
 
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Points: 828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 18:09
Originally posted by alias10mr alias10mr wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong but historically speaking, in the sixties we'd witnessed the so called British Invasion with groups like The Beatles, The Who, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks and so on... I think this was a natural progression and prog groups along with certain other rock ensembles were part of a second wave of the British Invasion. Also, if you listen closely, the sound and style is always different than let's say what U.S. groups ( more soul, Motown and r'n'b oriented ) were doing at that time.
 
True.  Britain was the place that modern rock started in, not just prog rock.  As for why England, perhaps it was just luck.  Maybe if America had come up with an extremely popular form of music before Britain came up with rock, there would have been an American invasion, and we wouldn't have rock right now.  As for why the most popular rock was in Britain, it may be because genres seem to do much better in the country the originated in.  For example, jazz never really caught on too well in Europe, but was pretty popular in America, where it came form, for a while.
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 18:29
Yes, though you realize rock (that is rock 'n roll) is purely an American form born of Blues and Boogie Woogie. In fact there *was* an American invasion of England, especially Blues and early rock, which deeply influenced Floyd, the Who, Clapton and Page. I do like your point about a music doing better in its place of origin.
    

Edited by Atavachron - October 24 2006 at 18:32
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alias10mr View Drop Down
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Points: 218 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 20:16
Alot of the 60's bands were indeed very blues influenced. Let's face it, many British artists cite American influences in their music.
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Points: 828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 21:34
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yes, though you realize rock (that is rock 'n roll) is purely an American form born of Blues and Boogie Woogie. In fact there *was* an American invasion of England, especially Blues and early rock, which deeply influenced Floyd, the Who, Clapton and Page. I do like your point about a music doing better in its place of origin.
    
 
I'm no expert, but could it be that that blues and the other predecessors of the English rock were never massively popular because most of the artists were black, and many people in America at least were still pretty rascist at that point in time?  Like, for example, jazz was invented by African-Americans, but it was the dance bands of people such as Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller, white musicians, that were incredibly popular (Although Benny Goodman did let African Americans in his band).  So maybe the new rock's popularity was a combination of everyone liking the new style and everyone prefering white performers?  Does anyone think this could be true at all?   
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2006 at 00:56
Well, I don't know if that avenue is really worth it taking. I'd rather keep this strictly musical rather than sociologic. Your observation is noted, however.
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2006 at 21:46
The more direct connection to European classical music must've had an effect on young British musicians, and the exposure to American jazz. Would prog rock simply have happened without the Beatles or the Who?
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Points: 828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2006 at 19:53
Rock wouldn't have happened without the Beatles or the Who.
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Points: 600 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:00
I think it is because of the crappy weather in England,people tend to be more depressive and creative when the sun is missing Smile.Also i think its due to an important youth movement polliticaly and socially at the end of 60s,for example,Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull were socially and pollitically engaged bands.
Ars longa , vita brevis
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:06
Really? I didn't realize that. As much as others like Lennon or Jimi Hendrix?
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:19
Originally posted by Sasquamo Sasquamo wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yes, though you realize rock (that is rock 'n roll) is purely an American form born of Blues and Boogie Woogie. In fact there *was* an American invasion of England, especially Blues and early rock, which deeply influenced Floyd, the Who, Clapton and Page. I do like your point about a music doing better in its place of origin.
    
 
I'm no expert, but could it be that that blues and the other predecessors of the English rock were never massively popular because most of the artists were black, and many people in America at least were still pretty rascist at that point in time?  Like, for example, jazz was invented by African-Americans, but it was the dance bands of people such as Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller, white musicians, that were incredibly popular (Although Benny Goodman did let African Americans in his band).  So maybe the new rock's popularity was a combination of everyone liking the new style and everyone prefering white performers?  Does anyone think this could be true at all?   


Rock n' roll music existed and was highly popular in America before the British invasion, and contained popular artists both white (Elvis, Bill Haley & The Comets, Jerry Lee Lewis) and black (Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, etc.).  Moreover, Motown records was started in 1959 and gained popularity quickly, such that it was in full swing by the time Beatlemania came to America.  One need only look at the early Beatles albums for the covers done - "Roll Over Beethoven", "Twist and Shout", "Please Mr. Postman", etc. - to see the influence of early American rock n' roll on the Liverpool scene.

Rock - invented in America, perfected by our cousins across the pond.  Tongue
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2006 at 20:38
Precisely.
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Points: 283 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 15:26
Well, prog was born in England.  That's what was "in" at the time I guess.  American Ifluence was big, but they weren't American so they played like British People.  They are a happy and friendly bunch of people.  Believe me, I've been there.  They're nicer than canadians and I didn't think that was possible.
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2006 at 18:10
Originally posted by jalas jalas wrote:

Well, prog was born in England.  That's what was "in" at the time I guess.  American Ifluence was big, but they weren't American so they played like British People.  They are a happy and friendly bunch of people.  Believe me, I've been there.  They're nicer than canadians and I didn't think that was possible.


I love Brits, such sweet people
    
    

Edited by Atavachron - October 31 2006 at 18:11
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