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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 16:08
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

Good thread Martin
 

I am ready to learn about new musicians and bands here; my notebook is open...

 

I just want to mention a recent band I bought a cd of - Boud Deun and the album is Astronomy Made Easy - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=45

Very dynamic fusion (with extras). Too bad the band broke up.


 

Also, I am not sure this is "pure" jazz rock, but I am enjoying immensely a band you added here - Cerebus Effect. http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=2559  I shall review it in the coming weeks when I have time.

 

 


Cerebus Effect are from my hometown of Baltimore and I have seen them live quite a few times.EXCELLENT band Assaf!!!!!
    


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Points: 3928 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 16:16
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:


Originally posted by Rutgers Joe Rutgers Joe wrote:

Stanley Clarke's first four albums are ESSENTIAL jazz-rock.


Do the four include include Clarke's first album: Children of Forever - several band's second albums are in fact the eponymously titled ones : BST and Chicago

Didn't know the Children Of Forever one but for me Clarke lost it with 'I Wanna Play For You'. The jazz rock gave way to jazz funk like so many had done. I bought about 20 fusion CDs for 50p a go in a nearby junk/second hand store. I kept about half of them as so much of it was this kind of 'fusak'. None more disappointing than 'Fuse One'- awe inspiring line up with Clarke, McLaughlin etc but it verged on disco.    
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Points: 12625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 17:29
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Also, I am not sure this is "pure" jazz rock, but I am enjoying immensely a band you added here - Cerebus Effect. http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=2559  I shall review it in the coming weeks when I have time.
 


Cerebus Effect are from my hometown of Baltimore and I have seen them live quite a few times.EXCELLENT band Assaf!!!!!
    [/QUOTE]
 
I knew they were from the US, but had no idea which state (so there is more to Baltimore than what was shown on the series Homicide - Life On The Street, eh?... LOL).
It took me some time, but finally I grew to appreciate their album, Acts Of Deception, for its multiple layers of composition and different styles used in the different songs. If they come to NY, I will try and go see them, now that you said that.
 
 
 
 
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Points: 105 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 17:29
Absolutely essential to any discussion of what's loosely called jazz-rock must include The Fourth Way, a San Francisco group formed in 1968 by Kiwi pianist Mike Nock which also featured Eddie Marshall on drums, Ron McClure on bass and Michael White on violin.

Their albums, made for the Capitol "prog" offshoot Harvest, are as yet unreissued, which is an unconscionable crime against Humanity IMO.  Here is what they look like if you want to go "In Search Of":

The Sun and the Moon Have Come Together (live in Berkeley, CA 1968)

The Fourth Way (1969)

Werwolf (live, Montreux Jazz Festival 1970)

Also essential are the albums reedsmith Eddie Harris made where he altered the mouthpiece of a trumpet to be reed-based.  These include:

Silver Cycles (1969)

Free Speech (1969)

Live at Newport (1970)

Also worthy of mention are records by the Brian Auger Trinity where Julie Driscoll (Julie Tippetts) is on hand, such as this one from 1969:
 

And speaking of things Tippett, please don't let yourself be without this 1971 gem:


Sorry for the picture-happy post, but at least you have a nice shopping list for the weekend if you don't already have those.
"Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom I will provide!"
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Points: 461 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 17:39
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

could anyone state & explain the difference between jazzrock and fusion? is there any? but please explain, don't just give examples.
 
I always saw jazzrock as jazz using rock ideas and fusion as rock using jazz ideas. the former is far superior in my opinion
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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 22:37
Some recommendations in the jazz and rock field:

Neil Ardley
Ian Carr projects
Creative Rock (GER)
IF
Carla Bley (I especially like the first album)
Embryo
Kollektiv
Early Chicago and VII
Pierre Moerlen's Gong
Maneige
The Greatest Show on Earth
Chick Corea (Piano Improvisations and RtF are my favs)
ANYTHING with Jan Garbarek (his Group projects are more jazz rock)
Later period Soft Machine of course
Steve Tibbetts
Oregon and related solo projects (they are one of my favs!)
BEN-S/T (Vertigo)

and some more I'm forgetting, not including the standard jr bands

I hope to go in depth with these more at a later dateBig smile

If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM.


Edited by Zac M - October 19 2006 at 22:39
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

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Points: 118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 23:45
NOBODY:

Have you ever seen an Eddie Harris live record from '74 called "E.H. in the U.K."?

Chris Squire from Yes guests on bass on Side Two: Conversations of Everything and Nothing, but I haven't been able to find this recording at all!

Also, I was about 6 years old when I heard that Streetnoise record with Auger and Driscoll...it originally came out, at least in the U.S.A., on Atco records. Got it on the shelf behind me and wishing that the catridge in the turntable wasn't shot Confused
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Points: 600 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 01:56
The only jazz rock bands i own are Maneige and Leb i Sol,but both awesomeThumbs Up
Ars longa , vita brevis
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12812 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 07:21
Sal
 
Fuse One on CD does have two gems - America's self-appointed arbitor of good taste in jazz, Wynton Marsalis, playing on two jazz funk tunes!!!
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Points: 7659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 07:52
Hello Martin.
 
I just reviewed the new album by Chilean band Evolucion, I think it will please the jazzrock aficionados, what an excellent sound, loaded with great interplay and splendid soli on keyboards and guitar. And do you still enjoy the amazing Japanese band KBB with the CD Live 2004?
 
P.s.: I have edited my post after reading Dick Heath his interesting explanation about the difference between jazzrock and fusion, very clear Thumbs Up


Edited by erik neuteboom - October 20 2006 at 13:05
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Points: 12625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 08:17
Erik's post made me remember another very good Chilean band - Fulano - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=2351
 
I especially like their first two albums; s/t and En El Bunker.
 
 
 
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12812 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 08:19
In the last 10 years the terminology has got confused and badly corrupted - often by professional jazz writers who forget their history - take some guidance from Stuart Nicholson and his book Jazz Rock: A History
 
 
Fusion : a merger of two or more genres. My first exposure was in 1966/7 by Joe Harriott/John Mayers Indo Jazz Fusion Double Quintet - i.e. who fused raga and jazz. I'm told there is an American album using "fusion" predating the Indo-jazz Fusion group. So fusion strictly encompasses indo-jazz, arabo-jazz, Anglo-celtic folk-jazz etc. and therefore not necessarily include rock elements.
 
At first there was rock -jazz, rock music with briefly flirted with jazz, e.g. instrumentation (e.g. Timebox's Ollie Hassell using the vibes) or had good jazz solos (e.g. some of Nice's music - indeed Nice employed session musicians of the likes of John Surman, and definitely the brass rock bands, BST, Chicago, Satisfaction, etc). When jazz music had taken on board rock rhythms, and in particular electric, amplified instruments, then the term jazz-rock started to become common place (amongst other things superceded the short term use of rock-jazz). The loss of the word 'rock' from jazz rock fusion seemed to occur mid to late 70's as a lot of music and musicians got stale, moved out of the genre or evolved into smooth jazz/easy-going jazz suitable to American (and now British) FM radio stations.
 
Personally if the music is a hybrid of jazz and rock I will say jazz rock or jazz rock fusion. However, the genre of jazz fusion has expanded signifcantly over the last 10years to include nu.fusion (and nu.jazz) hiphopjazz, drum'n'bass jazz, turnatablism etc.
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12812 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 08:35
I make no apology transferring the following from the nonprog music section - this thread is far more valid; 
Many, including those especially into jazz rock, may not be aware of 
how many excellent virtuoso guitarists born and bred in Austria, are on the 
scene at the moment.

Alex Machacek (or when with his first band is McHacek), moved to LA 2 years 
ago. He released a very impressive album in the late 90's Featuring Ourselves, 
reflecting his love of Zappa and Holdsworth. Equal partnership with Terry Bozzio in the band BPM - their album 
Delete & Roll in part is a continuation of the polyrhythmic approach Bozzio was 
playing in the Mothers. 
Most recently the US label Abstract Logix has released Alex's [Sic] 
which has gained much critical praise for its cutting edge fusion.


Conrad Schrenk, I'm told is a somewhat reclusive musician, who often 
records albums and "forgets" to release them. His 1996 album with Extravaganza, 
Save The Robots has been voted one of the best fusion albums of the 90's.
A follow-up album exists in the can but apparently Schrenk lost some interest in 
it......


Gerald Gradwohl first was heard with the Austrian band The Powergrade - 
their album Working Men revealed them to be a good power fusion band.
Then Gradwohl visited the USA to record with members of Tribal Tech, 
and saxophonist Bob Berg, the album ABQ - sadly Berg was killed in a car 
crash soon after, so this album marks his last recordings.


Most recently some of the fusion sites have been given the heads up  
about Austrian band Electric Outlet's release On!, with Marcus Deml on guitar 
- I've just ordered it from Amazon.UK  while people are buzzing that the band 
sound like a cross between Niacin fronted by Joe Satriani - I wait and see 
but I've not been misguided by previous recommendations of Austrian fusion 
guitarists. Check 'em out.
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Points: 3928 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 08:51
Ah right yeah- the little I did find out about 'Fuse One' implied Marsalis was never credited or had refused to have his name on the album or some such...
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Points: 1242 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 09:15
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

In the last 10 years the terminology has got confused and badly corrupted - often by professional jazz writers who forget their history - take some guidance from Stuart Nicholson and his book Jazz Rock: A History
 
 
Fusion : a merger of two or more genres. My first exposure was in 1966/7 by Joe Harriott/John Mayers Indo Jazz Fusion Double Quintet - i.e. who fused raga and jazz. I'm told there is an American album using "fusion" predating the Indo-jazz Fusion group. So fusion strictly encompasses indo-jazz, arabo-jazz, Anglo-celtic folk-jazz etc. and therefore not necessarily include rock elements.
 
At first there was rock -jazz, rock music with briefly flirted with jazz, e.g. instrumentation (e.g. Timebox's Ollie Hassell using the vibes) or had good jazz solos (e.g. some of Nice's music - indeed Nice employed session musicians of the likes of John Surman, and definitely the brass rock bands, BST, Chicago, Satisfaction, etc). When jazz music had taken on board rock rhythms, and in particular electric, amplified instruments, then the term jazz-rock started to become common place (amongst other things superceded the short term use of rock-jazz). The loss of the word 'rock' from jazz rock fusion seemed to occur mid to late 70's as a lot of music and musicians got stale, moved out of the genre or evolved into smooth jazz/easy-going jazz suitable to American (and now British) FM radio stations.
 
Personally if the music is a hybrid of jazz and rock I will say jazz rock or jazz rock fusion. However, the genre of jazz fusion has expanded signifcantly over the last 10years to include nu.fusion (and nu.jazz) hiphopjazz, drum'n'bass jazz, turnatablism etc.
 
Very nice explanation Dick Clap
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12812 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 09:50
Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

Ah right yeah- the little I did find out about 'Fuse One' implied Marsalis was never credited or had refused to have his name on the album or some such...
 
IS writ big in the liner notes of my CD version! LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
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Points: 3928 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 10:01
It seems I had a different version to that- the one I had doesn't mention him on the front cover. Seems there have been a few CD versions of it judging by an internet search...
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12812 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 11:49
Originally posted by salmacis salmacis wrote:

It seems I had a different version to that- the one I had doesn't mention him on the front cover. Seems there have been a few CD versions of it judging by an internet search...
 
I bought the original version of Fuse on LP, because of the presence of McLaughlin and Clarke - one of the last CTI releases? - which has about 2/3rd ofthe CD version in my possession.  I don't believe Marsalis was included on the LP, indeed I think some of the newer performances found onthe CD have diluted the quality heard with the reasonable LP which had a couple of stand out tracks, and the rest more than lsitenable?
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 12:08
I'm currently listening to this,a live double album from Bruford Levin Upper Extremities:



Miles Davis-style trumpet (Chris Botti) layered over proggy soundscapes.Levin plays Chapman Stick.Interesting,eery stuff.
    

Edited by Tony R - October 20 2006 at 12:09
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12812 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2006 at 12:23
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

I'm currently listening to this,a live double album from Bruford Levin Upper Extremities:



Miles Davis-style trumpet (Chris Botti) layered over proggy soundscapes.Levin plays Chapman Stick.Interesting,eery stuff.
    
 
You missed the weirdness of guitar maestro David Torn - lurking in the background of your picture. If you haven't already done so, check out the precursor to BLUE, David Torn's Cloud About Mercury (ECM), where the great Mark Isham plays trumpet and the rest of the line-up is common - Isham btw has  done a superb tribute album to Miles Davis. Contact me privately TR if you want to know how to get hold of the elusive Cloud 
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