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sularetal 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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 Topic: Why buy cds?
Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:04 |
First of all mp3 are really in our lifes. You can download (illegally) almost every cd in just a few minutes (even rare ones). I’m not going to lie here… I have one it many times but only cause I can’t afford buying the cds at all. The best I can do is buy 1 cd every week and I do it by saving money from other stuff that I do (for example I go out with my friends and try not to spend anything, eat home etc).
I know it’s really nice to have the cd. You have the booklet, the lyrics, good quality (not like the crappy mp3s) and it’s really nice to have the cd somewhere in your house. Especially in prog (as well as other genres), having the cds is really nice since you never listen to tracks but always to albums. On the other hand, I really don’t like the fact that from the 15 euro that I give, the musicians take only a very little part. I know, the owners of the music store have to be paid, the record companies have to earn money but the musicians? If there is one reason to buy a cd that would be to financially help the artist.
Artists in general know that it’s tough to live from their work (IMO it shouldn’t even be called work). Not saying we aren’t supporting them by buying cds but there could be better ways. I don’t know… It’s just that to me music is not a product…
Admins: feel free to move this thread. I wasn’t sure were to put it since it doesn’t really fit in the non-prog music.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:17 |
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The high price of CDs in stores is a reason why I always try to buy as many albums as possible through online stores. The prices are often lower there, especially on Prog albums. I also buy many albums on vinyl, because it's cheap and because the sound is better. Rare albums in high demand are of course very expensive on vinyl aswell, but I have found many rarities at low prices aswell.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:17 |
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MP3 is not in my life and will never be. It's the worst format ever (along with others compressed formats).
But maybe one day records will disapear as everybody turns to this crap.
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Australian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3278
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:19 |
It’s more a question of what’s right, stealing the music or buying it. I for one have a very heavy conscious and knowing that I supported something illegal really gets to me.
Though, I have no problem with burning CD’s… 
Edited by Australian - October 16 2006 at 05:19
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:19 |
 oliverstoned wrote:
MP3 is not in my life and will never be. It's the worst format ever (along with others compressed formats).
But maybe one day records will disapear as everybody turns to this crap. |
Luckily, there are lossless formats aswell.
Edited by Philéas - October 16 2006 at 05:20
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:19 |
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Usually I recommend Napster in this situation ... but as you live in Greece, that's not an option. Well, let's hope that Napster expands to other European countries soon!
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the icon of sin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 588
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:36 |
Australian wrote:
It’s more a question of what’s right, stealing the music or buying it. I for one have a very heavy conscious and knowing that I supported something illegal really gets to me.
Though, I have no problem with burning CD’s… |
I'm fine with burning CDs, at least it's something keeping the format alive...even MP3 CDs are fine by me, a long as they're made up from other CDs... I don't downnload music legally or illegally - maybe it's something about the presentation of a CD, physically holding something as opposed to looking at a computer screen to access your music. There's little doubt they are a dying breed, and i'm doing my best to clean out second-hand record shops and keep the disc from disappearing.
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T.Rox
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 06 2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 9455
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:41 |
One would think the price of CD's should reduce as we move into the online world ... but maybe they don't because people STEAL the artists' and record companies' livelihoods.
I have no problem ripping my own CD's to mp3, or recording my LP's to mp3 to allow me to listen to them at the computer either at work or home, and to protect my investment. But not to distribute to others.
I sometimes download the odd item to check it out, then I order the CD if it is any good. If I don't order the CD I delete the downloaded files.
I do use eBay a lot to get my CD's, which can be a cost effective way of buying your CD's. I have bought about 450 CD's on eBay in the last 18 months and have only had one arrive damaged, and one where I have been ripped off by a con artist, and a handful that have been of a poor mastering quality (always a problem when buying without the opportunity to listen to the music), but overall eBay has been a pretty good experience where I have picked up some fairly rare CD's from all over the world that have broadened my music horizons ... and most of the CD's I have chased have been as a result of Prog Archives reviews ... so thanks for the input, reviewers.
Another drawback of the mp3 world: often not getting to hear an album in its entirety, or without unintended gaps between tracks.
I suppose the answer to the fundamental question of this thread is: CD trumps mp3 ... and vinyl trumps CD ... so if sound quality is what you are after then seek out a quality LP pressing, failing that then seek out a CD, and lastly an mp3.
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"Without prog, life would be a mistake."
...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12813
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 06:52 |
T.Rox wrote:
One would think the price of CD's should reduce as we move into the online world ... but maybe they don't because people STEAL the artists' and record companies' livelihoods.
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I would have agreed with this up until 3 or so years ago, wrt the UK. However, retailer price wars as the food supermarkets flex their muscles moving into cut-price chart CDs and DVDs as sidelines, and internet selling mean I've seen prices I pay drop significantly, plus I have a couple of good local 2nd hand CD shops. Perhaps it is also a case of learning where the good deals are, over the last 5 years. Recently I've purchased John Scofield's Uberjam, Gambale, Hamm & Smith's GHS 3 for 6 quid each plus nominal p& p, and Richard Thompson's 1000 years Of Popular Music (2 CDs & a DVD) for just over a tenner. Legally I have been buying quite a number of CDs for around 6 quid for several years - and quite a number which are not freely available in the UK. This has been through Amazon.UK's marketplace and usually coming from Caiman USA, i.e. US imports into the UK, without State tax, and without UK VAT or import duty - the secret being to keep the price of package contents to below 20 quid or else VAT and duty will kick -in (also the UK post office double those costs for handling thru' Customs).
I do use MP3s but have learnt if I like the music I should then buy the CD, since too often the MP3 lacks some of the sonic quality of the CD.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:04 |
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Why buy CD's?Because it feels right to have th CD, I can feel it and know that I have bought the album and paid good money for it. I have a few mp3 albums saved on my PC and it doesnt feel like I actually own them. There are other obvious bnefits to having the CD (it sure as hell cant be deleted by accident) the most important I find is the booklit with the artwoork and liner notes in. Though I get the feeling that eventually we may have to get our music through online downloads (legall of course) I ont be looking forword to it.
As a side noe, I do agree with the fact that CD's in store are way to expensive (mst prog albums in HMV or Virgin Megastore are £17) I almost exclusively buy CD's through Play.com and Amazon.co.uk now so that I can get them for a decent price.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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alias10mr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 218
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:08 |
I will not mess with someone's livelihood. If a person came to me and said: " Listen, teach your class, we're gonna film it and that's what we'll use in all classes so we won't be needing teachers anymore. " Different scenario, yes, but the point is creating music for artists is their passion AND THEIR JOB. Contrary to what was said at the beginning of this thread, making music and playing gigs is work. Artists should be paid for their work, it's as simple as that. Whether you download music or buy it retail, you're putting food on the table not only for the artist who slaves to create but peripherally to all who work on the product. I buy retail and use ITunes, if and when I download. If I can't afford it, I wait till I can. That's the nice thing about music...you can buy something that came out in the 70's now and still appreciate it  .
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 1823
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:15 |
You may already know that in Greece you can buy new CDs for 6 Euros from Metropolis. They're not the latest stuff but they have a huge collection of classic prog.
As for CDs vs MP3s, I always buy CDs and rip them to MP3s myself. I don't feel like I own an album until I have the CD myself. You can't put your collection of MP3s on the shelf and look at them. As many people have said, it's nice to have the little CD booklet and the artwork to look it.
As Sleeper said, I'm not looking forward to the demise of the CD but I'm sure it's days are numbered and it won't be long before it disappears.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:25 |
sularetal wrote:
First of all mp3 are really in our lifes. You can download (illegally) almost every cd in just a few minutes (even rare ones). I’m not going to lie here… I have one it many times but only cause I can’t afford buying the cds at all. The best I can do is buy 1 cd every week and I do it by saving money from other stuff that I do (for example I go out with my friends and try not to spend anything, eat home etc).
I know it’s really nice to have the cd. You have the booklet, the lyrics, good quality (not like the crappy mp3s) and it’s really nice to have the cd somewhere in your house. Especially in prog (as well as other genres), having the cds is really nice since you never listen to tracks but always to albums. On the other hand, I really don’t like the fact that from the 15 euro that I give, the musicians take only a very little part. I know, the owners of the music store have to be paid, the record companies have to earn money but the musicians? If there is one reason to buy a cd that would be to financially help the artist.
Artists in general know that it’s tough to live from their work (IMO it shouldn’t even be called work). Not saying we aren’t supporting them by buying cds but there could be better ways. I don’t know… It’s just that to me music is not a product…
Admins: feel free to move this thread. I wasn’t sure were to put it since it doesn’t really fit in the non-prog music. |
my friends had two computers that they loaded tons of downloaded music off of napster and other programs. both of those computers are down and they work from laptops that do not have the tons of downloaded music. i have over 500 cds. i also downloaded stuff from itunes and free legal download sites, which are for the most part on my ipod. if my computer goes down, i have my music. if i need a new computer, i can load my music back on. go me.
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T.Rox
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 06 2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 9455
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:27 |
Bob Greece wrote:
As Sleeper said, I'm not looking forward to the demise of the CD but I'm sure it's days are numbered and it won't be long before it disappears. |
I'm still mourning the loss of vinyl 
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"Without prog, life would be a mistake."
...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:36 |
Bob Greece wrote:
As Sleeper said, I'm not looking forward to the demise of the CD but I'm sure it's days are numbered and it won't be long before it disappears. |
I'm sure the CD format will eventually be superceded, but as and when it is, I hope it is by something better than MP3.
Back on thread - I daresay we all own 'burned' CDs & probably CDs created from downloads, too; illegal? Certainly; a modern version of the old 'home taping is killing music' argument? Of course - but still illegal nonetheless, so let's be careful here that we are not seen to be condoning illegal activities.
So, why buy a CD? In my case, it's simple - packaging and quality, pure & simple (also, having access to sites like Amazon.com where you can buy relatively new titles at knockdown prices, and old catalogue albums for next to nothing is a major advantage...)
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:39 |
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the situation changes in poor countries. like mine. myself i work fulltime and for that i earn about 250 euros per month, of which 90 go for rent and the remains allow me to live from one month to another - and the prices are here quite the same as in the EU. and 250 is quite good here, as my parents earn around the same amount, after a life of hard work. this beeing the case, i buy one record a month, but always something cheap. i can never spend over 10 euros per month for music. that's why almost everything i listen to comes from torrents, friends and other sharing solutions. i'd love to buy original product's, but i can't, and i also can't stop needing music after i'm somehow exposed to it. i know it's not very legal, i can only wait for the moment when i'll be able to give back what i took. it's also imoral, now that's much more difficult to deal with ("mea culpa, but...").
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:52 |
Because you're more likely to actually listen to a CD than to a hard-drive full of downloaded mp3s (whether legal or not).
The problem with having "gigs" of music is that you hardly ever listen to most of it, and all those little files become much of a muchness, devaluing the great music that some contain.
When you listen to a physical medium, such as a CD, you benefit from the superior sound that CD has over mp3 (although I agree that the lossless formats almost invalidate the sound quality argument).
You're (probably) also more likely to listen to it in its entirity as an album, plus you get those other useful bits and pieces like information about the recording and lyrics that you can peruse as you listen to heighten the experience.
However, CD will never sound as "good" (pedantics read the same) as vinyl, and the large vinyl packaging gives a much "warmer" overall experience. And you can actually read the lyrics, where they've been included... 
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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T.Rox
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 06 2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 9455
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:55 |
Jim Garten wrote:
Back on thread - I daresay we all own 'burned' CDs & probably CDs created from downloads, too; illegal? Certainly; a modern version of the old 'home taping is killing music' argument? Of course - but still illegal nonetheless, so let's be careful here that we are not seen to be condoning illegal activities. |
The real difference between the "tape at home" scenario and the downloading of tracks from the internet and the burning of CD's is the ease with which the latter takes place. And the abiltiy to make one copy after another after another fairly quickly leads to much of the music piracy we see in many market places around the globe.
As I said earlier: I make copies of my CD's for my own use to protect my initial investment (which I am fairly sure I am allowed to do) ... I do not make copies for others.
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"Without prog, life would be a mistake."
...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
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Neil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1497
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 08:12 |
I like to buy the CD if it's music that I know I'll want to keep. It's nice to have something tangible that you know belongs to you if you understand what I mean. MP3 and other format files, whether licenced or not, seem so fragile and non-existent. If your hard drive fails you can lose everything. Also the fact that mp3 coding does compress the data by throwing stuff away does put me off it as an original source. I'll record my CD's as mp3 to listen to on the move because if I find that they sound bad as mp3s I can still return to the CD.
I think that the CD will continue for a fair while yet as a media because the optical disc technology that has followed (DVD etc) uses the same principles and is compatible with original CDs.
As for the legality it again depends on the type of person you are. I would happily download the odd track without paying, knowing that if I liked the band I would be buying their CD. Bands could and will benefit from that if their music is good.
The other side of the coin is those who download whole albums and then burn fake CD's to sell. That is definitely bad for the music industry and should be tackled legally.
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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 05 2005
Location: Love Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 5872
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 09:30 |
When I lsiten to MP3 I'm less attentive than when I'm listening to CD...just my 5 cents .Besides MALS(a Russian prog-label) have hundreds of MUSEA CDs at their catalogue,and I've already got dozens of them by 5,5$ only!
I have a lot of MP3s I must confess,but if I really like the band I try to find their CD.Also I usually try to find CDs of the new bands which are highly praised on Archives(to be in a trend ).If I don't like the band,I usually leave a MP3-copy - just for the record.
Why buy CDs? OK,imagine that you're prog artist.You have no band and live in the small town,where no-one knows about prog(actually I'm talking about myself now  ).You've managed to record an album,and some record label have released it.You've got hundreds of thanks for the music from all over the world,but your label says that only 10 copies have been sold...(and this is true).So, you've spent 500$ on recording and 100$ on printing demos and sending them everywhere (prices we have in our region).You've got 10 copies sold - this is 150$ max.You're lucky if label just throw you away without any money penalties...
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Why buy cds?
