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Dreamer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 17:02
Originally posted by Minimalist777 Minimalist777 wrote:

Yupp its especially frustrating being part of that generation. It seems like nobody can talk about anything but sex, drugs and rock n roll (not even good rock, just crap like Green Day ugh)
 
Ahh I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one suffering. This days I try to stay out of this never ending "rebel" conversations, and when I can I attempt to start talking about something concrete, which isn't that often it always leaves half the people silent and confused, and the talk ends rather quickly...
When I told my freind I find this kind of talks repetitive and quite boring, and want to talk about something about more interesting and complicated, a bit less shallow please, he says "you take life way too serious man."  I feel a bit trapped.
AngryAngryAngry


Edited by Dreamer - September 02 2006 at 17:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 17:06
Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

Well... lets see
2 years of preschool
1 year of kindergarten
8 years of gradeschool
4 years of high school
1 year of college and counting...

Never once learned about:
The Vietnam War
Iran Contra
The Gulf War
Iran Contra
The Constitution
The Cuban Missile Crisis

It seems that the schools love spending time on the civil war WWI & WWII and ancient civilizations. You usually get to around 1945 near the end of the year and by that time you'll be lucky if you learned anything new. I never actually touched on the Constitution of the United States until the last year of high school where we briefly touched on it in a college level class that you had to pay extra for. A good 10 years of my life was wasted picking out adjectives and verbs in sentences and trying to multiply two digit numbers. The standard 8 grades should be condensed into 4 and high school from 4 to 2 with an emphasis on math and science. 80% of the material taught in schools is repeated from the first grade. Angry



In my classes we usually stopped learning about stuff past 1955, due to "class time restraints." If we didn't spend 3 weeks learning about the Puritains favorite farming patterns, we might learn something timely. Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 17:09
We got as far as the Cold War and the Cuban Missle Crisis, but it wasn't covered in great depth though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 17:13
In the early 80'ds I leved in USA for a couple of years, before Shinning Path existed, few people knew about my country and that's incredible being a part of the whole America (In those days we studied America as a whole coontinent).
 
The really good ones I remember are:
 
1.- I got backstage pass for a non Prog good concert (Will not mention the band) and the lead singer was talking with me and saoid Ahh Perú....Cocaine and Macchu Picchu, it was depressing, this band had toured in Siuth America and only had heard those references.
 
2.- A girl I met in a party told me literally: "You are from Perú, great, I know your country, I was playing risk the other day and it's one of the 4 nations of South America. Dead
 
3.- Anothe girl asked me if I was ashamed of my country because I was wearing Occidental clothes instead of the native outfit as those cute Africans from the university.
 
For God's sake, is that the level of USA school system?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 17:16
The American school system is, for the lack of a better term, f**ked up.
There are high school students who don't even know where Iraq is or even the Middle East.
DeadCry



Edited by king of Siam - September 02 2006 at 17:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 17:26
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

In the early 80'ds I leved in USA for a couple of years, before Shinning Path existed, few people knew about my country and that's incredible being a part of the whole America (In those days we studied America as a whole coontinent).
 
The really good ones I remember are:
 
1.- I got backstage pass for a non Prog good concert (Will not mention the band) and the lead singer was talking with me and saoid Ahh Perú....Cocaine and Macchu Picchu, it was depressing, this band had toured in Siuth America and only had heard those references.
 
2.- A girl I met in a party told me literally: "You are from Perú, great, I know your country, I was playing risk the other day and it's one of the 4 nations of South America. Dead
 
3.- Anothe girl asked me if I was ashamed of my country because I was wearing Occidental clothes instead of the native outfit as those cute Africans from the university.
 
For God's sake, is that the level of USA school system?
 
Iván


Those %&*#ing non prog bands - you never know who you're dealing with Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 22:45
Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

That's sad, but not unusual.
 
 Can't name three European countries (That was an entire -- geography -- class of "bright" grade nine kids.)
 
 
norway, Germany and Fenwick are three, right? Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 00:22
Is that Fenwick pronounced Fen Wick or Fennick?

It makes a difference you know! WinkLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 07:59

I never heard a history teacher of me mention Winston Churchill in class.

In fact I never even learned alot about WW1 or WW2 in school.
 
My history teacher actually was suprised that I mentioned Churchill in a paper called "My idols in history" I had to do because I forgot my history book and was just reading in class.
 
I think I actually learned more that day by not paying attention and reading about the psychology of human cruelty then I would've learned if I did pay attention Tongue

Tool makes the butterflies in my tumybox go woooooooosh
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 08:14
Originally posted by Falling Flower Falling Flower wrote:

I never heard a history teacher of me mention Winston Churchill in class.

In fact I never even learned alot about WW1 or WW2 in school.
 
My history teacher actually was suprised that I mentioned Churchill in a paper called "My idols in history" I had to do because I forgot my history book and was just reading in class.
 
I think I actually learned more that day by not paying attention and reading about the psychology of human cruelty then I would've learned if I did pay attention Tongue
 
you did not learn much on ww1 or ww2 and you are still better off than most kids over here. it's not the teachers so much as it is the utter lack of responsibility and accountibility that children have.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 09:18
Originally posted by Dreamer Dreamer wrote:

Originally posted by Minimalist777 Minimalist777 wrote:

Yupp its especially frustrating being part of that generation. It seems like nobody can talk about anything but sex, drugs and rock n roll (not even good rock, just crap like Green Day ugh)

 

Ahh I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one suffering. This days I try to stay out of this never ending "rebel" conversations, and when I can I attempt to start talking about something concrete, which isn't that often it always leaves half the people silent and confused, and the talk ends rather quickly...

When I told my freind I find this kind of talks repetitive and quite boring, and want to talk about something about more interesting and complicated, a bit less shallow please, he says "you take life way too serious man."  I feel a bit trapped.

[IMG]height=17 alt=Angry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>[IMG]height=17 alt=Angry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>[IMG]height=17 alt=Angry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>

    
Anyone who believes that the concerns about the American Education System are exagerated should read this thread:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28070&KW=

I am not blaming Brian,because nobody has ever explained to him why history is important....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 13:03
Originally posted by Falling Flower Falling Flower wrote:

I never heard a history teacher of me mention Winston Churchill in class.

In fact I never even learned alot about WW1 or WW2 in school.
 
My history teacher actually was suprised that I mentioned Churchill in a paper called "My idols in history" I had to do because I forgot my history book and was just reading in class.
 
I think I actually learned more that day by not paying attention and reading about the psychology of human cruelty then I would've learned if I did pay attention Tongue
 
Yes, FF, extra (beyond what the school requires) reading is essential. Bravo!Clap
 

As I stressed, education and a basic knowledge of history and the world are not just acquired in school.

(In prior generations, the grandparents were usually an integral and respected part of the family, so their direct knowledge of the past, and their hard-earned wisdom could be passed on. Families talked.)

Still, there is no substitute for an at-home exposure to a wide variety of reading material, and the necessary love of books has to be ingrained, AT HOME, prior to entry into kindergarten. Small children -- I would start at 2-3 months -- should be read to daily. Also, real parent-child conversation about the world, and how we got where we are, is fundamental.

Obviously, having educated (not just formally educated) parents helps in a huge way -- if the parent is educated, inquiring and knowledgeable (i.e., values knowledge), the child will likely become so as well.

The family, and LIFE itself is a "classroom," and you don't leave it until you die. Schools can't teach everything (least of all fundamental morals and attitudes), and that essential love of reading and thirst for knowledge has to be ingrained AT HOME. The child who was never (or rarely) read to prior to kindergarten will almost certainly never catch up, and will be doomed to a life of academic mediocrity, failure, ignorance of their world, and the past that shaped it, and continues to shape it. With a stunted, limited vocabulary come limited thought processes, insufficient problem-solving skills, and an inability to really, effectively communicate. With poor communication comes poor relationships (divorce, single parenthood, etc.), and from poor relationships come dysfunctional children -- the vicious cycle perpetuates itself.

However, just because someone was raised in a non-educational, non-communicative environment does not mean he or she is necessarily doomed to failure and the inability to have a working relationship (not just spousal relationships either -- life is made of relationships, of many kinds). It is tough, requires hard work and willpower, but one can choose to reject perpetual victim hood, and raise oneself up, to break the cycle. (That's the field I work in, and yes, doctors do come from ghettos too! Sometimes even one good role model, mentor or inspiration -- it could be a person, a book, a philosophy, a religion, etc. -- can make the difference, and tip the balance.)

If you are content with welfare, blaming your parents and teachers, disrespecting all authority and age-won wisdom and mental achievement (and disrespecting YOURSELF) however, don't expect your children to be any different. They learn the attitudes and morals they see modeled at home, and this happens by age four, and prior to entry into the school system.

If I do well in a game of Trivial Pursuit, 95% of my success is NOT due to my having done well in school, or even having gone to university (as a disgruntled opponent once maintained). No, my breadth of knowledge beyond my immediate vocation and first-hand experience comes from a life of reading, and learning, very early on, that knowledge is valuable, "power," attractive, and even "cool." It's good to be able to speak well and with some insight on a wide range of topics, and people notice this. Those who disrespect knowledge and the well-spoken disrespect themselves. Being around the educated or thoughtful makes them uncomfortable (they see themselves as distinctly lacking, in comparison to the other, and this forced self-knowledge is unwelcome, and causes pain), so they lash out, say "I don't wanna know" or "it's irrelevant to me" or "you think too much."

(I imagine they have trouble looking themselves in the eye when they shave, or apply their makeup.)

Do you call policemen "pigs" in front of your kids, curse and swear in front of them, tell them "don't take any sh*t from your teachers" (someone told me that's what she tells her kids), and call the educated "pencil pushers?" Do you tell yourself that all that educated people know is books, that they don't know sh*t about "life," or the "streets," that what they know "don't matter?" (Yes, they have lived, loved, experienced pain and -- temporary -- failure too. You don't know their past, and education is not just "handed' to someone, or gained in school.)

If you never try, you'll certainly never succeed. True, lasting happiness with yourself (and the respect of others you respect) does not come from a bigger paycheck, a flashy car, big biceps, a boob job, the latest computer toys, another beer, a big CD collection, or even a high forum post count. It comes from knowing that you've pushed yourself to your potential (whatever that is -- it could be as a mechanic, carpenter, minister, teacher or fisherman), and knowing that whatever you choose to do, you choose to do it well -- or not at all. At least you tried!

Have you subscribed to National Geographic (etc.) yet? Are there any maps on your rec room wall? Any books beside all those CDs and DVDs? Did you read a book (or five) this summer? Did you read to your toddler last night?

 
Embarrassed Sorry to have written so much, but this is a subject very near and dear to my heart -- I genuinely care. Perhaps, in some small way, I will have helped or inspired someone. This is the hope that keeps me going. Education is the only answer to the world's woes -- or so I firmly believe. We have to start using those great big brains we have.Stern Smile
 
Smile P.S: Here's a very good book, BTW -- it's quite readable, endlessly intriguing, and will teach you a heck of a lot, and all while entertaining you:
 


Edited by Peter Rideout - September 03 2006 at 13:38
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 13:18
Guigo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 13:49
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

And for those fearing Mathematics, I recommend to start here (adults & children):
 
 
"The Man Who Counted", what a book!!!Clap
Thanks Guigo -- that book looks great!Big smile
I will order one for my kids and I!
 
 
BTW, the Bryson book is very funny, as well, and it covers the origins of the earth and life, geology, science, astronomy, histories of pioneering scientists, mathematicians, etc -- nearly everything, as the title says! It's really terrific, and would appeal to just about anyone (that is Bryson's major talent -- he can make you read, laugh, and care about stuff you may have thought you'd never grasp, or be interested in).
 
A must read!
 


Edited by Peter Rideout - September 03 2006 at 13:50
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 14:03
Peter: Clap

Again, I wholeheartedly agree with your wise words.

When growing up, my parents never swore or said bad things about people.  Even now they do not swear and I most certainly have never sworn in front of them.  It may sound strange to people, but I seriously believe it helped my own personal upbringing.  I used to also read Janet and John (or was it Peter and Jane?) books when I was first beginning my intrepid quest of learning to read.  I believe (although I cannot remember) that my parents also read to me as a toddler.

My parents are working class and my family have never been materialistic in any way and they still do not crave the latest gadgets and mindless rubbish that we get forced on us in the media.

They also never went to University or College, yet both of my parents can read and write and are intelligent individuals.

They have good morals and that is what they ingrained into me, money is not an issue, University education is not an issue either.  Good parents are the most important aspect for new borns through to the day you leave this mortal coil.


Edited by Geck0 - September 03 2006 at 15:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 15:01
One of the few advantages of living in a third world country is that we know we are not the center of the world so we study everything on the contrary USA knows they are the cebnter of the world so their schools only worry about their history and geography, the rest of the world doesn't matters.
 
You can go to a school in a "Pueblo Joven" (Young Towns is a fancy name for ghettos) and every kid will know at least all the countries of America, Europe and Africa (Well since the fall of the USSR Government so many countries have been created that I doubt even the teachers know all), we study Universal Story and we know about the Egyptians, Roman Empire, the Middle Age and even about the cuban misssile crisis (I reached Watergate because I ended school in 1980).
 
In private schools it's even better, I was forced to study logics, Philosophy and Ethics, Peruvian History, Peruvian and Universal Literature and even Religion, of course this doesn't help too much in a poor country because many doctors and lawyers are driving cabs because there is not enough work but at least people leaves school with a general idea of the world.
 
When I studied in USA I thought it would be much more challenging but honestly it was the contrary, except in Math which is a bit more advanced because our math teachers suck (they only care and boast about the natural talents and don't worry about simple mortals as us that passed Maths with a bt of luck and a 12 or 11 grade -Our grade system goes from 0 to 20-).
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 15:28
 
considering Bill Bryson's book (a short history of nearly everything) I am waiting for a follow-up. "A comprehensive history of nearly nothing"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 15:36
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Peter: Clap

Again, I wholeheartedly agree with your wise words.

When growing up, my parents never swore or said bad things about people.  Even now they do not swear and I most certainly have never sworn in front of them.  It may sound strange to people, but I seriously believe it helped my own personal upbringing.  I used to also read Janet and John (or was it Peter and Jane?) books when I was first beginning my intreped quest of learning to read.  I believe (although I cannot remember) that my parents also read to me as a toddler.

My parents are working class and my family have never been materialistic in any way and they still do not crave the latest gadgets and mindless rubbish that we get forced on us in the media.

They also never went to University or College, yet both of my parents can read and write and are intelligent individuals.

They have good morals and that is what they ingrained into me, money is not an issue, University education is not an issue either.  Good parents are the most important aspect for new borns through to the day you leave this mortal coil.
Right on, Geck0!
 
Parents are the most important "teachers" (they give us our core morals, self esteem and attitudes), and you (and your spouse) are by far the most important role model your child will ever have. Don't expect your child's school teachers to teach your child right from wrong -- morality is ingrained (or not) in the critical first few years of life.
 
And yes, being "educated," informed or wise need not have anything to do with formal schooling.
(Though obviously, in this material world, formal & post-secondary education is of vast -- and increasing -- importance, and school can impart valuable knowledge and insight, and hone many -- pre-existing -- aspects of your personality. Sadly, for some, it may also be the first place they encounter a positive, supportive role model.
 
I can respect and admire people from all walks of life -- from the person who fixes my car, the surgeon who saves my life, to the musician who adds poetry and beauty to my world. Hard-won ability, experience and wisdom -- from whatever source -- merits respect.
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 15:44
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

  Good parents are the most important aspect for new borns through to the day you leave this mortal coil.
 
"The only thing the world needs is for each child to grow up in happiness." -- Chief Dan George
 
 
 
You need a license to have a dog....Ermm
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2006 at 15:53
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

 
considering Bill Bryson's book (a short history of nearly everything) I am waiting for a follow-up. "A comprehensive history of nearly nothing"
 
You just wrote it. LOL
 
Or you could just print out all 4,391,686,284 pages of the collected insights, deep thoughts, witty repartee and stimulating intellectual exchanges of the Velvet Room....Ermm
 
(Ah, the art of modern conversation and correspondence!) Confused
 
cya Wink


Edited by Peter Rideout - September 03 2006 at 15:55
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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