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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 14:01
Spacecraft, there is no ban on discussing piracy, but we need to be careful to ensure we are not seen to be condoning or promoting it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 15:27
From where I'm from: The Faroe Islands, there are mushrooms growing in your backyard. Basically anywhere. I'm too frightened to try it, but some of my friends are crazy for the stuff.

Edited by Kleynan - August 26 2006 at 15:32


You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 16:02
Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

And where are they???????????????????????????
 
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW.


Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
 
in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 16:46
Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

And where are they???????????????????????????
 
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW.


Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
 
in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems.
 
I'd hope that the admins would delete a thread advocating that perversion in a hurry Angry!
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:03
No, and never will, not interested...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:07
I mean, LSD Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:17
Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

And where are they???????????????????????????
 
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW.


Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
 
in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems.



Let me rephrase, if the discussion is actually providing a means to commit the action, then it shouldn't be brought up. For example, someone asking 'hey do you have any files you can send me' or someone saying 'go to this site if you want to download such and such.' Now try telling people to go to a site to get the sinfully delicious ketchup to put on their filet mignon, they can't exactly use the internet as a means to accomplish this.

also, as far as the discussion of sex leading to it, people used to believe that, look at the Puritans, they wouldn't even allow dancing because it could suggest it. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I usually am



Edited by heyitsthatguy - August 26 2006 at 17:19


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:29
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

And where are they???????????????????????????
 
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW.


Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
 
in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems.
 
I'd hope that the admins would delete a thread advocating that perversion in a hurry Angry!
 
Don't knock it till you've tried it Syzygy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 17:29
Admin Note:


One would hope this thread continues to progress in an adult and sensible manner.
Some members are coming close to crossing the line which says discuss by all means but do not encourage.
The Admin Team hope that this thread continues to maintain its generally high standards and that the "community" of posters here self-moderate.

Thanks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 19:01
Tony:
 
If this thread is still within "official" bounds, we must all be doing something wrong!  LOL.
 
Actually, following on darksinger's comment, I think the point is that there is nothing wrong with discussing one's experiences with drugs, or providing facts (or even just opinions) and information about drugs, or even debating the merits (or lack thereof) of the use of certain drugs under certain conditions.  It is only if and when someone says, "Hey, all you young'uns here - you should all go out and buy lots of illegal drugs, fry your brains, and end up permanently believing you're an orange" that the line is crossed.
 
As for me, I made it clear that I while I am neither proud nor ashamed of my own experiences, I do not condone the willy-nillly use of any drug, including marijuana.
 
Peace.


Edited by maani - August 26 2006 at 19:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 19:31
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Used it a lot in the early 90's. Excellent drug, until you have a bad trip, after that it never feels the same again. Took my last one about ten years ago. Advice to anyone considering it. Dont bother. I suffered bad depression as a result my lifestyle at the time, and LSD was a big factor in that.

 

[IMG]height=17 alt=Clap src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif" width=18 align=absMiddle> Sound advice. A friend of mine suffered a breakdown after tripping almost daily for several months (though I'm pleased to say he made a full recovery) and I've been with a few people who were having bad trips - not funny at all ... my only 'bad trip' was an ecstasy pill that went horribly wrong, not a experience I wish to repeat. If you do experiment with the stuff, remember that you never know how strong it is until it's in your system, and once it's in there you'll be under the influence for 8 - 12 hours and experiencing the after effects for 2 - 3 days. A bad trip can take days to get over if you're lucky.

 

I have taken acid, the last time about 10 years ago, and I had some interesting times on it. To clear up a common misconception: although you do experience some visual effects - I've seen walls 'breathing', rainbows emerging from teacups, spinning discs on the walls, moving objects leaving traces behind them in the air, auras around people and objects - neither I nor anybody I know has ever had the kind of "Then I saw John Wayne in a pink bikini playing the piano on an elephant's back in my fridge" hallucination that some people seem to expect. The visuals tended to occur early on in the trip, following which I achieved a deep understanding of the appleness of an apple, the patterns in the carpet or (on one memorable occasion) Picasso and Braque's synthetic cubism from about 1912 - 14, for instance the famous portrait of Ambrose Voillard. I didn't find that it did much for my perception of music - weed and shrooms are for more effective for me - but it did for some of my friends. I also couldn't watch TV while tripping - I was too aware of the flickering image - and I became very sensitive to light and to sudden changes in temperature.

 

For the benefit of any Beatles fans, Lucy In The Sky isn't a very good musical evocation of a trip, but She Said, Rain and Strawberry Fields capture the experience to a T. For Floyd Fans, most of Syd's songs on Piper give a good idea of what a trip can be like, particularly Scarecrow and Matilda Mother, but Syd's solo work shows what the after effects can be like.


You summed up the trip experience there very well, Chris.

The most simple things can seem pretty profound. One time I was lying on the grass looking up at the moon. As the clouds passed overhead, I could feel the rotation of the Earth. It was an incredible feeling. My friend tried eating a ham sandwich, and said he could 'taste' the fear and pain of the pig that died for his sandwich!!

Mad times. Im glad there behind me now, the world is a mad enough place without seeing it through 'Kaleidascope eyes'
      
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 19:51
Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by darksinger darksinger wrote:

Originally posted by heyitsthatguy heyitsthatguy wrote:

Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

And where are they???????????????????????????
 
Muy point is, you can't say you have copied(pirated) software, but your forum gets closed down, because some moderator gets all anal. But, you can say you have taken/taking drugs? WHAT THE f**k IS THE DIFFERENCE.......I WANT TO KNOW.


Because, PA being a music site, discussion of "pirating" could lead to the actual act, as it can be done on a computer, and the moderators don't exactly want the site being closed down just because of the actions of one person. And it's not wrong for one to say they have pirated software, but it is wrong for someone to tell someone else how to do it/lead them into doing it. I've heard many people discuss pirating before, but the only ones I've ever seen yelled at were the ones asking for ways to commit the act.
 
in the same sense then, the discussion of drugs could lead to the act, the discussion of sex could lead to the act or the discussion of putting ketchup on filet mignon could lead to the act (and a far worse sin than the other three, i may say). i think it is more in terms of legal liability, especially in the aftermath of napster and other musiv swapping sites. the admins could say "we only condoned trading of legal copies of music and were not aware of the several who were swapping bootlegs" and the law might not buy that. in the same sense, i have been on sites where trading official copies was permitted and there were no problems.



Let me rephrase, if the discussion is actually providing a means to commit the action, then it shouldn't be brought up. For example, someone asking 'hey do you have any files you can send me' or someone saying 'go to this site if you want to download such and such.' Now try telling people to go to a site to get the sinfully delicious ketchup to put on their filet mignon, they can't exactly use the internet as a means to accomplish this.

also, as far as the discussion of sex leading to it, people used to believe that, look at the Puritans, they wouldn't even allow dancing because it could suggest it. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, which I usually am

 
i understand that. i'm just saying that if it were merely the concern of discussion leading to the act, it would be silly because it could mean any discussion leading to any act. condoning means different than discussion. discussion being for example talking about owning bootlegs that you bought in the past without endorsing it. i mean, i own bootleg concerts and have bought, mostly by accident, eastern european bootlegs off of ebay by rather snivy individuals. my saying it is not condoning the act-i am merely saying i have in the past bought these things. now, to condone, i'd tell people that it is okay to buy these things (it's not) and where to go to get these bootlegs or how to make bootlegs and that sort of thing. discussion and condoning are not always that clear though.
 
if i said what you just said, i'm sorry.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 21:06
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Hey, all you young'uns here - you should all go out and buy lots of illegal drugs, fry your brains, and end up permanently believing you're an orange

Well, I'm sold!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 21:17
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Hey, all you young'uns here - you should all go out and buy lots of illegal drugs, fry your brains, and end up permanently believing you're an orange

Well, I'm sold!

    
damn,I knew he was using subliminal messages but just couldnt prove it until now.....

..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2006 at 11:26
To the ducking stool with him....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2006 at 12:14
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:



I love satan....



Help,he's warping our fragile minds....
     
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2006 at 12:35
An interesting article from The New York Times, 8/28/06:
 
California Seeks to Clear Hemp of a Bad Name

STRATFORD, Calif. — Charles Meyer’s politics are as steady and unswerving as the rows of pima cotton on his Central Valley farm. With his work-shirt blue eyes and flinty Clint Eastwood demeanor, he is staunchly in favor of the war in Iraq, against gun control and believes people unwilling to recite the Pledge of Allegiance should be kicked out of America, and fast.

But what gets him excited is the crop he sees as a potential windfall for California farmers: industrial hemp, or Cannabis sativa. The rapidly growing plant with a seemingly infinite variety of uses is against federal law to grow because of its association with its evil twin, marijuana.

“Industrial hemp is a wholesome product,” said Mr. Meyer, 65, who says he has never worn tie-dye and professes a deep disdain for “dope.”

“The fact we’re not growing it is asinine,” Mr. Meyer said.

Things could change if a measure passed by legislators in Sacramento and now on Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s desk becomes law. [The bill reached Mr. Schwarzenegger last week; he has 30 days to sign or veto it.]

Seven states have passed bills supporting the farming of industrial hemp; their strategy has been to try to get permission from the Drug Enforcement Administration to proceed.

But California is the first state that would directly challenge the federal ban, arguing that it does not need a D.E.A. permit, echoing the state’s longstanding fight with the federal authorities over its legalization of medicinal marijuana. The hemp bill would require farmers who grow it to undergo crop testing to ensure their variety of cannabis is nonhallucinogenic; its authors say it has been carefully worded to avoid conflicting with the federal Controlled Substances Act.

But those efforts have not satisfied federal and state drug enforcement authorities, who argue that fields of industrial hemp would only serve as hiding places for illicit cannabis. The California Narcotic Officers Association opposes the bill, and a spokesman for the Office of National Drug Control Policy in Washington said the measure was unworkable.

Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican running for re-election, has been mum on his intentions, with the political calculus of hemp in California difficult to decipher. The bill was the handiwork of two very different lawmakers, Assemblyman Mark Leno, a San Francisco Democrat best known for attempting to legalize same-sex marriage, and Assemblyman Charles S. DeVore, an Orange County Republican who worked in the Pentagon as a Reagan-era political appointee.

Their bipartisan communion underscores a deeper shift in hemp culture that has evolved in recent years, from ragtag hempsters whose love of plants with seven leaves ran mostly to marijuana, to today’s savvy coalition of organic farmers and health-food entrepreneurs working to distance themselves from the drug.

Hundreds of hemp products, including energy bars and cold-pressed hemp oil, are made in California, giving the banned plant a capitalist aura. But manufacturers must import the raw material, mostly from Canada, where hemp cultivation was legalized in 1998.

The new hemp entrepreneurs regard it as a sustainable crop, said John Roulac, 47, a former campaigner against clear-cutting and a backyard composter before founding Nutiva, a growing California hemp-foods company. “They want to lump together all things cannabis,” said David Bronner, 33, whose family’s squeeze-bottle Dr. Bronners Magic Soaps, based in Escondido, Calif., are made with hemp oil. “You don’t associate a poppy seed bagel with opium.”

The differences between hemp and its mind-altering cousin, however, can be horticulturally challenging to grasp. The main one is that the epidermal glands of marijuana secrete a resin of euphoria-inducing delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol, or T.H.C., a substance all but lacking in industrial hemp.

Ernest Small, a Canadian researcher who co-wrote a major hemp study in 2002 for Purdue University, compared the genetic differences to those that separate racehorses from plow horses. Evolution, Mr. Small said, has almost completely bred T.H.C. out of industrial hemp, which by law must have a concentration of no more than three-tenths of 1 percent.

To its supporters, industrial hemp is utopia in a crop. Prized not only for its healthful seeds and oils, rich in omega-3 and -6 fatty acids, but also its fast, bamboo-like growth that shades out weeds, without pesticides.

“Simply put, you create a jungle in one year,” said John LaBoyteaux, who testified in Sacramento on behalf of the California Certified Organic Farmers association. “There’s a growing market out there, and we can’t tap it.”

The bill before Governor Schwarzenegger is the latest installment in a hemp debate that reached its height in 2004, when the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals said that federal antidrug laws did not apply to the manufacturing or consumption of industrial hemp. The court ruled that decades earlier, Congress had exempted from marijuana-control laws the stalks, fibers, oils and seeds of industrial hemp, and that the government had no right to ban hemp products.

That opened the floodgates for Patagonia hemp jeans and the Merry Hempsters Zit Zapper (with hemp oil).

Patrick D. Goggin, a lawyer for the Hemp Industries Association and Vote Hemp, said there would probably be legal snarls to work out with the California legislation, assuming it is enacted, so that farmers would not be placing their property in jeopardy if they chose to grow industrial hemp. But if the federal government clamps down, Mr. Goggin said, “we’re prepared to raise the issue in court.”

“Were trying to get an arcane vision of the law contemporized,” he added.

Rogene Waite, a spokeswoman for the Drug Enforcement Administration, said the agency would not speculate about pending legislation.

The bill’s adherents point to hemp’s hallowed niche in American history. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson cultivated hemp (neither effort was profitable). Colonists’ boats sailed the Atlantic with hempen sails. Old Ironsides carried 60 tons of hempen sail and rope. The word “canvas,” in fact, is derived from cannabis, a high-tensile fiber naturally resistant to decay.

Hemp flourished as an American crop from the end of the Civil War until the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act ended production. During World War II, when Japan seized the Philippines and cut off supplies of Manila hemp, the crop got a brief reprieve in the United States, where farmers were encouraged to grow “Hemp for Victory,” for boots, parachute cording and the like. But contrary to lore, most such hemp was never harvested.

Today, China controls about 40 percent of the world’s hemp fiber, and its ability to flood the market “could result in price fluctuations the American farmer would have to weather,” said Valerie Vantreese, an agricultural economist in Lexington, Ky. (Kentucky was once the leading hemp-producing state).

Hemp is grown legally in about 30 countries, including many in the European Union, where it is mixed with lime to make plaster and as a “biocomposite” in the interior panels of Mercedes-Benzes.

In the United States, the chief argument against hemp has been made by drug-control officials, who are concerned that vast acreages could be used to conceal clandestine marijuana, which they say would be impossible to detect.

“California is a great climate to grow pot in, and no one from law enforcement is going through the fields to do a chemical analysis of different plants,” said Thomas A. Riley, a spokesman for the Office of National Drug Control Policy in Washington.

To some people intimate with the nuances of marijuana, however, the idea of hiding marijuana in a hemp field, where the plants would cross-pollinate, provokes amusement.

“It would be the end of outdoors marijuana,” said Jack Heber, 67, a marijuana historian and author who runs a group called Help End Marijuana Prohibition, or HEMP. “If it gets mixed with that crop, it’s a disaster.”

In North Dakota, the state agricultural commissioner, Roger Johnson, has proposed allowing hemp farming, and has been working with federal drug regulators on stringent regulations that would include fingerprinting farmers and requiring G.P.S. coordinates of hemp fields.

“We’ve done our level best to convince them we’re not a bunch of wackos,” Mr. Johnson said.

Fifteen years ago, he noted, there was little market for canola, which is now a major crop produced for its cooking oil. He sees hemp in a similar vein and dismisses the fears that it would lead to criminality.

“It would take a joint the size of a telephone pole to have an impact,” he said.

But up north in Garberville, the Central Valley of marijuana, the lines between hemp and marijuana are often a hazy blur, as they are at a store called the Hemp Connection, where hemp hats and yoga clothing are sold alongside manuals on pot botany and Stoneware baking pans (“makes six groovy brownies per pan”).

The proprietor, Marie Mills, who said she once crafted paper from marijuana stalks, remains committed to cannabis in all its guises.

“We want to educate people and take away the stigma,” Ms. Mills said. “We want hemp without harassment.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2006 at 15:24
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Hey, all you young'uns here - you should all go out and buy lots of illegal drugs, fry your brains, and end up permanently believing you're an orange

Well, I'm sold!

    
damn,I knew he was using subliminal messages but just couldnt prove it until now.....

..



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2006 at 19:44
The point is obviously being missed. Why is it ok to talk about drug experiences, and drugs used, but to state you have been pirating means you are seen as, almost, worse than a paedophile.
 
Both are illegal, but, drus sem to be the lesser evil?
 
If this was my post, it would have been shut down for me being honest (or at least stating my veiw, i pirate cd's)................more than double standards exist here.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2006 at 03:36
If you'll forgive me, Spacecraft, I think you're simplifying the issue a little here.

This thread has developed from a question regarding a single illegal substance, to a generalised debate on the pro's and con's of illicit drug use; to their credit, the moderators have allowed this potentially dangerous subject to continue, but under strict supervision to ensure that at no point does anyone advocate or recommend drug use - were any one member to post such an opinion, said member would be in danger of expulsion, and (I suspect) the thread shut down & deleted.

The issue of CD piracy, be it by lending/burning, or by the now more common file-sharing, has been covered many times in the past, and for various reasons. There is no reason why such a debate should not be started again, and no doubt argued well from both sides - but the bottom line remains the same: discussion of illegal activities is fine (to an extent, depending on the activity concerned ) on the strict condition that such illegal activities are in no way condoned, praised or recommended to others. The discussion of music piracy, in any of its many forms, is of special relevance to a site such as this; by having thousands of members, all of whom have large music collections (and all of whom want their collections to expand), the potential for huge levels of piracy is there for all to see. If the admin team were to be seen to be turning a blind eye to condoning piracy, there is the very real possibility of the music industry becoming involved, the site shut down for good, and potentially criminal charges being bought against those deemed 'responsible' - face it, it wouldn't be the first time .

I made the point a couple of pages ago that it doesn't matter how common drug use is, or how the user is percieved to be 'doing no harm', the fact remains, like it or not, the activity (be it drug use, file sharing, CD piracy or whatever) remains illegal and all members of this site must respect that fact.

Cheers

Jim    

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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