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Tony R 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
 Posted: August 12 2006 at 14:59 |
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So when was the term "Prog Rock" first used Dick?
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Yukorin
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 21 2005 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1589 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 15:03 |
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Edited by Yukorin - September 14 2006 at 02:09 |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12816 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 15:11 |
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I gave up a long time ago over-worrying about the historical inaccuracies, ambiguities and other unreliable info - particularly when somebody suggested us old dogs have our ideas but the kids who weren't there at the birth of progressive music (to give its 1967 or '68 terminology - yes I agree progressive rock is a later term, but as to being coined after 1973, 4, 5, 6, 7, or??? I'll have to dig into my clippings). In deed I've asked here in the past if somebody could actually locate in print when the term "art rock" was first used - verbally I've heard claims as to it being as early as 1965...... I think 'underground music' or 'progressive music' were interchangeable between 1967 to 1969. Perhaps King Crimson's exposure to the crowd at the Rolling Stones' Hyde Park gig brought them and the music above gound - although Keith Ralf's Renaissance was getting more TV exposure through Jim Mossman's BBC 2 arts programme. And as said before the first prog sample Wowie Zowie The World Of Progressive Music was released in 1969, and gathered some real sod'n'sods of music to demonstrate the breadth of the genre at the end of the 60's (at least to the pundits at Decca Records who compiled the disc - but how many sampler albums have been and continue to be padded out with spurious examples of music?). Working in a record store from 1965 to 1970, I personally labelled a section "progressive music" about 1968 although the first albums in that slot were the first two Canned Heat LPs and a John Mayall album (Diary of a Band??) - just confirmed Boogie With Canned Heat was originally released in 1968. I would suggest that 'progressive music' was first used in the UK music press in 1968. More after dinner. |
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Yukorin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1589 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 15:21 |
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Edited by Yukorin - September 14 2006 at 02:08 |
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RaślGuate
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2006 Location: Guatemala Status: Offline Points: 146 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:45 |
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Here's proof that the word "prog" wasn't coined in 1976:
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=2387 Peter and The Wolf - Prog FairytaleSo? |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:48 |
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Well done-released in 1975 
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:54 |
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hmm...
I'm sure the 'prog' term was coined by some college kid who after a few too many bong hits couldn't finish saying 'progressive rock' with out inserted potato chips in his mouth...... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12816 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 19:56 |
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Spent the last few hours trawling through my clippings garnered from the pages of Melody Maker, Disc, Record Retailer (ie the UK musical trade weekly), NME and even some Rolling Stone materials, and this covering the period approx 1967 to 1980. Although I've largely saved material from what we now would call 'prog rock', the term 'progressive' is hardly used!(and as for 'progressive rock' or even 'progressive music' not a thing - and then two references (so far) of 'progressive blues' bands - reinforcing what I remembered as to the earliest labelling. However, a critic reviewing the compilation Love Masters credits Love as being 'truly progressive'. Keef Hartley's Halfbreed has a critic comment " the music goes far beyond the blues and must establish Hartley as one of the leaders in Britain progressive pop scene". 'Underground' is being used for Pink Floyd on a Ummagumma review. Quicksilver Messager Services's Happy Trials is called 'head music'. (Remember the Monkee's movie directed by Jack Nicholson...) 'Experimental pop' is used for The Nice's Ars Longa Vita Brevis. Soft Machine by the time of the Triple Echo box set is called 'fusion'. RTF's Light As Feather is attributed 'jazz rock' The Doors (Love Street) as 'a pubies underground group' - pubies??? Yes interviewed when Rick Wakeman first joined the band are calling themselves 'orchestral rock'. BTW the term 'rock' seems to be fairly common in the UK press after 1969. An article in the Daily Express May 1973, are calling Yes 'probably the most musically brilliant pop group in the world'. No genre or other pigeonholing in many reviews including those for Greenslade (Spyglass Guest), Genesis (Wind & Wuthering), Steve Hackett (Please Don't Touch), Hugh Hopper(1984), Steve Hillage (Open), King Crimson (Wake Of Posiedon), Magma (DMK), Matching Mole (first album), apart from comments about the musical complexities and borrowing from varous other musical genres. So hard referencing with accurate dates are still to be nailed wrt 'progressive rock' - so folks time to dig through the the old newspapers hidden away for 30 years in lofts. etc. |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 20:01 |
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I
have to say.. I wouldn't mind being a guest at the Heath abode..
I could get lost in all those clippings hahahha publies huh.... I will have to find a way to work that into a post somewhere..  |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 12 2006 at 21:02 |
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However I would have to see the album cover to be sure. On this and two other Prog Rock sites the album is referred to as "A Prog Story" however o0n other sites it is referred to as a "Rock Story" so maybe the "Prog" bit was added to the title at a later date. |
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crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 848 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:15 |
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There's a clear reference to the term "progressive music" from the "Record Mirror" dated 16/5/1970 in the various contemporary quotes included in the sleeve notes to the remastered "In the Wake of Poseidon":
"The album has been impeccably produced and arranged and must rank as one of the most important contributions to progressive music for some time."
To my mind, the phrasing of this sentence suggests that the term "progressive music" is already an accepted one, as it's used in a very casual way.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that if the term "progressive music" is used about this sort of music, alongside the term "rock", that at least some people weren't talking about "progressive rock".....but I admit that isn't proof.....yet....
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"Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:20 |
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Its the contraction of the term into "Prog Rock" that we are searching for CT.
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:33 |
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http://krisma.mayancaper.net/records/peter/peterbig.html
I suspected the 'prog fairytale' bit was added later, and this cover confirms it. No mention of it being 'prog' on the front...
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:35 |
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I agree with you that they were maybe added later to the description. |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:45 |
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I found a bit of an article in Mojo that has a small section that suggests who exactly came up with the shortening of progressive music to 'prog'. Here's what Mick Farren (of The Deviants) says, who wrote the whole article.
'Progressive music had to be de-capitalised and some underground press wag- possibly Charlie Murray- shortened it to "prog", making it sound like a Saxon mining implement.'
This perhaps backs up the original post....
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:48 |
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or he could have just been tapping into the vernacular of the fans.
I am adamant that I was referring to it as "prog rock" prior to 1976,it's just proving it! Edited by Tony R - August 13 2006 at 09:48 |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:49 |
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I have a magazine somewhere that has a selection of music related ads from the 1970s- I shall have a read over that.
EDIT- Found one ad that clearly makes reference to 'progressive rock':
'FOUR GIRLS, 15-16, to write to four lads in progressive rock band.'
There are addresses etc after that, and sadly there's no date. However, apparently this comes from Sounds Magazine, long since defunct.
No explicit mention of the vernacular 'prog rock' but it could obviously easily have been abbreviated in everyday speak as Tony says. Edited by salmacis - August 13 2006 at 09:55 |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:54 |
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I have scoured articles about Genesis from the Genesis Music.com Archive eg: http://www.genesis-music.com/Archivephase2.htm The trouble is they are invariably described as performing pop music-maybe these scribes were psychic.. |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:55 |
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^ I updated my previous post just above your one, Tony.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: August 13 2006 at 09:57 |
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Sounds survived into the 80s.
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A brief history of prog
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Tony R wrote: