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Uther 
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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 Topic: Led Zep!!
Posted: August 04 2006 at 03:02 |
All of you know Led Zep have some interesting albums like Phisycal Graffiti, House of the Holy and IV(untitled), for example. Ok their start with blues based hard rock but they development prog folk lines since Led Zep III
Come on people! keyboards doesn't mean prog music at all. Well even Led Zep has a bit
Led Zep to prog folk place in PA!!! 
Greetings from Chile
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 04:54 |
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I agree, Led Zep is more prog than many new addtions from the last months! I love the 2-DVD featuring wonderful keyboardwork by John Paul Jones (on Mellotron, Hohner clavinet, Fender Rhodes piano and the Yamaha GX-1 synthesizer) and warm acoustic songs, including the great work by Jimmy Page on Bron-Y-Aur-Stomp, goose bumps, what a killer guitarist!
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martinprog77
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2531
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 04:55 |
I AGREE  they should be in pa.they used some keys [like on all of my love]
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Nothing can last
there are no second chances.
Never give a day away.
Always live for today.
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20032
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 07:57 |
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I think the addition of the might Zep has been discussed at length before here. The general opinion is that, despite a few proggish songs, they do not qualify. You can't be a prog band just because you "used some keys".
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:10 |
The non-addition of Led Zep prooves that there is something wrong with the addition policy on Prog Archives, way from consequent  !
Led Zep rocked and was very progressive on same albums, absolutely no less than Wishbone Ash, Triumph, Magnum, Uriah Heep or Deep Purple, all heavy progressive bands! So comments like that from Chopper above dont' make sense  !
LED ZEPPELIN FOR PROG RELATED !
(If it only was to be consequent)
Edited by erik neuteboom - August 04 2006 at 08:13
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
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Points: 46301
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:18 |
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the statement that "just because some are here, this should be as well" is a thing against which I thoroughly oppose. by that principle working or being considered appropiate, in about three years, this will become a most chaotic archive. Luckily for the moment this "principle" is just a way of mentioning bands and trying to talk things into an addition approval.
More that that, if mistakes of additions have been made, refering to the conflictual bands that are here, I think the best thing is to not repeat the mistake, not to continue in the spirit and the rule of that mistake.
Led Zeppelin have nothing to do with prog, Chopper said well that "some keys" or even some tunes that could fit DO NOT mean even the closest corelation between the specific band and prog.
My vote stands against.
P.S.: Eric, making Prog related out of Led Zep seems to me like an offence to Led. How in earth can a full rock band be of the prog related character?! Applying the rule of "not 100% prog" to any kind of music into making it related is against something ambiguous.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:34 |
As long as way less interesting bands than Led Zeppelin keep on flooding this site I will repeat that injustice has done to Led Zeppelin !
The last months I have listened to many The Beatles albums, incredible that this progressive pop is so acclaimed! No doubt that they were highly influential but many albums by Led Zeppelin are superior to The Beatles albums.
OK, Led Zep was often a full rock band but they also delivered great progressive moments, just watch the second disc of their 2-DVD How The West Was Won, what a great mix of rock, blues, folk and symphonic ! So it's crap to talk about "a few proggish songs" and "Led Zep has nothing to do with prog", do you need a third ear Chopper and Ricochet  ? |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 27 2005
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:36 |
 then......
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:41 |
...there were three 
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:47 |
Erik, While I am not completely opposed to Zep being in, the Archives are just not ready for Zep's inclusion, yet. Wishbone Ash was a mistake to include to begin with!
Heep and Purple have full-blown prog albums, something that no Zep album can claim (the two closest one being IV and HOTH). Please leave The Beatles out of this!
I believe the solution you once brought up about creating a Heavy Progressive or Hard Prog category might just be the solution to have them included. >> this would be reserved to early 70's group that were hard rock (or heavy rock). Then BOC and Sabbath can get included too!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 08:48 |
 erik neuteboom wrote:
As long as way less interesting bands than Led Zeppelin keep on flooding this site I will repeat that injustice has done to Led Zeppelin !
The last months I have listened to many The Beatles albums, incredible that this progressive pop is so acclaimed! No doubt that they were highly influential but many albums by Led Zeppelin are superior to The Beatles albums.
OK, Led Zep was often a full rock band but they also delivered great progressive moments, just watch the second disc of their 2-DVD How The West Was Won, what a great mix of rock, blues, folk and symphonic ! So it's crap to talk about "a few proggish songs" and "Led Zep has nothing to do with prog", do you need a third ear Chopper and Ricochet ? |
You misunderstand me Erik. I'm merely pointing out that Led Zep have been discussed and rejected. I'm a huge Led Zep fan and whilst I agree some of their stuff such as The Rain Song, No Quarter etc are proggy, I don't think they warrant inclusion overall, but then I wouldn't include Queen or Deep Purple either. I wouldn't complain if they were added though. 
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Phil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 11:29 |
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Oh boy has this been discussed before. Like chopper I'm a big fan, but I too don't think they should really be listed in PA (and I'm still mystified as to the inclusion of Deep Purple...).
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Uther
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 12:28 |
i agree with erik & sean
Come on guys! hey Chopper & Ricochet, it seems you are a couple of puritans. The worst blind man is who doesn't wanna see 
Led Zep made a kind of prog folk i think. You know Jimmy Page take something of folky guitarmen like Bert Jansch & Davey Graham. On the other hand the lyrics show northern folk elements.
You can't deny the influence of Physical Graffiti X2 (the most prog of all), House of the Holy (yeah it's a bit prog too) or Led Zep IV ( maybe a prog folk).
Ok moreover prog related category...heavy prog is good...but Sabbath doesn't fit!!! they are pure heavy
let's think an alternative category: prog blues? 
Maybe this discussion had a place before, but i'm a "newbie" and it seems there are some aspirations about the issue (i'm not a native english speaker so sorry for that) 
Greetings
Edited by Uther - August 04 2006 at 13:36
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Uther
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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Posted: August 04 2006 at 13:57 |
Ok, finally the poisson... i think some guys have a bias towards D Purple. So many albums are in "proto prog" even 70's albums...Is it not proto prog pre 70's category or something? some DP albums have doubtful music quality...and some are pretty good!
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mystic fred
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Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 14:14 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
As long as way less interesting bands than Led Zeppelin keep on flooding this site I will repeat that injustice has done to Led Zeppelin !
OK, Led Zep was often a full rock band but they also delivered great progressive moments, just watch the second disc of their 2-DVD How The West Was Won, what a great mix of rock, blues, folk and symphonic ! |
Count me in!!
 Led Zeppelin 4 on-a-mug.
Edited by mystic fred - August 05 2006 at 14:15
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 14:20 |
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You must take into account that until Led Zep 4, thet weren't anywhere close to prog at all. That's 3 albums of blues rock and folk.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 14:33 |
If we have Prog-Metal here,then shouldnt there be a genre called "Progressive Hard Rock"?
How about "Vaguely Prog-Related"?
or
"We Got Some Fancy Vintage Keys So We Might Be A Little Bit Proggish" ?
or "10 Seconds Of Prog"?
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Kleynan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2006
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 720
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 14:47 |
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If Zeppelin were added, so should green Day. Just check their song "Jesus of Suburbia"... ... ... So no! Zeppelin should not be added IMO.
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You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 14:50 |
^
If X = 5,compute the value of Y.
Cant do it can you!
Neither can you use the argument that if X should be here so should Y.
Edited by Tony R - August 05 2006 at 14:51
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 15:09 |
I have deep reservations about Led Zeppelin's inclusion. 'In The Light', 'Rain Song' and 'No Quarter', maybe 'Ten Years Gone', are perhaps prog related tracks, but this is in a distinct minority. At least Deep Purple started out as basically the UK version of Vanilla Fudge , and were quite early in doing the much maligned rock orchestra project. Uriah Heep's early albums are all prog rock albums- you can't really fail to hear the prog in their first 4 albums, imho.
I do however support the 'hard/heavy prog' section alongside Sean. Not to just throw in heavy rock bands such as Zep et al. that flirted with prog occasionally, but a good resting place for the bands that are already here like Heep, Purple, Rooster, Warhorse, Quatermass et al. 'Art rock' where all these bands are is a bit of a dumping ground for bands that don't fit the clearer cut genres, imo.
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Led Zep!!
