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erik neuteboom 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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 Posted: July 28 2006 at 18:38 |
Micky, you should know about the emotional ("overdosed on sentiment and pride") e-mails between Tony and me last year (we were all overworked/frustrated/too dedicated at Prog Archives) but in the end we appreciate each other, we are all just a bunch of quickly hurted, highly dedicated, hard working, big ego progheads ..  .. that is both our weakness and strength!
Edited by erik neuteboom - July 28 2006 at 18:46
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micky
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 18:50 |
hahah... I know.. and count myself in that group... I wouldn't toss my
opinions all over the place like I did if I didn't have the ego and
dedication not to mentioin knowledge to stand by them. Besides I've
always had a bit of the 'button pusher' in me. Part of drawbacks
as a person... I enjoy being a pain in the ass hahahh  Tony and I have gone a round before... hopefully he still likes me. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
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Points: 2703
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 18:56 |
 tuxon wrote:
Bye the way, what does super prog means? |
I have the same question.
IMO band releasing an album like "Beat" or "Abacab" or "Open your Eyes" or "Love Beach" can't be called super-prog-band. They would be "super" if they abstain from releasing such rubbish.
On the other hand Rush with 8 great albums is in the same league with Genesis with 8 great albums.
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carefulwiththataxe
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micky
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 19:03 |
eugene wrote:
tuxon wrote:
Bye the way, what does super prog means? |
I have the same question.
IMO band releasing an album like "Beat" or "Abacab" or "Open your
Eyes" or "Love Beach" can't be called super-prog-band. They would
be "super" if they abstain from releasing such rubbish.
On the other hand Rush with 8 great albums is in the same league with Genesis with 8 great albums.
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oh come now Eugene.... one man's rubbish is another's gold.... I'm sure
there is ...someone who likes Love Beach.... somewhere hahah .
Having said just enough about Rush for the day... HAH! Prog Rush
and Prog Genesis didn't even have 8 albums, not counting live
albums, much less 'great' prog albums. Unless you think
that Caress of Steel or Fly by Night were great albums ... or
Trespass or Nusery Cryme were GREAT albums. They were good, some
very good and quite enjoyable...but far from great.. they were
building blocks TO greatness. My two cents as always...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 19:21 |
micky wrote:
eugene wrote:
tuxon wrote:
Bye the way, what does super prog means? |
I have the same question.
IMO band releasing an album like "Beat" or "Abacab" or "Open your Eyes" or "Love Beach" can't be called super-prog-band. They would be "super" if they abstain from releasing such rubbish.
On the other hand Rush with 8 great albums is in the same league with Genesis with 8 great albums.
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oh come now Eugene.... one man's rubbish is another's gold.... I'm sure there is ...someone who likes Love Beach.... somewhere hahah. Having said just enough about Rush for the day... HAH! Prog Rush and Prog Genesis didn't even have 8 albums, not counting live albums, much less 'great' prog albums. Unless you think that Caress of Steel or Fly by Night were great albums ... or Trespass or Nusery Cryme were GREAT albums. They were good, some very good and quite enjoyable...but far from great.. they were building blocks TO greatness. My two cents as always...
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But that proves my point that you are debating subject containing no subject. Your "super-prog" is complete rubbish for someone somewhere. The definition of "super-prog" is unclear and very subjective. It's a nice funny game - to range the bands into leagues, but your debates are so hot as if it is something of ultimate importance.
Rush is very good band and I cannot see any problem for them to be named among other bands of Premier League. They are actually in this league. But number one in this league must be VdGG of course. 
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carefulwiththataxe
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micky
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 19:31 |
eugene wrote:
micky wrote:
eugene wrote:
tuxon wrote:
Bye the way, what does super prog means? |
I have the same question.
IMO band releasing an album like "Beat" or "Abacab" or "Open your
Eyes" or "Love Beach" can't be called super-prog-band. They would
be "super" if they abstain from releasing such rubbish.
On the other hand Rush with 8 great albums is in the same league with Genesis with 8 great albums.
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oh come now Eugene.... one man's
rubbish is another's gold.... I'm sure there is ...someone who likes
Love Beach.... somewhere hahah.
Having said just enough about Rush for the day... HAH! Prog Rush
and Prog Genesis didn't even have 8 albums, not counting live
albums, much less 'great' prog albums. Unless you think
that Caress of Steel or Fly by Night were great albums ... or
Trespass or Nusery Cryme were GREAT albums. They were good, some
very good and quite enjoyable...but far from great.. they were
building blocks TO greatness. My two cents as always...
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But that proves my point that you are debating
subject containing no subject. Your "super-prog" is complete
rubbish for someone somewhere. The definition of
"super-prog" is unclear and very subjective. It's a nice
funny game - to range the bands into leagues, but your debates are so
hot as if it is something of ultimate importance.
Rush is very good band and I cannot see any problem for them to be
named among other bands of Premier League. They are actually in
this league. But number one in this league must be VdGG of course.
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hahah... I specialize in rubbish thank you very much... with little nuggets of wisdom mixed in.
Seriously .... who wants to see more best Dream Theater album threads
or polls. This stuff is ...oh my god....fun. Who the hell knows
or cares who is.. or what is super-prog.. the fun is when blowhards
like me try to make people care.  On that subject...
HAH! VdGG in the same league with Yes, ELP, Floyd, and Genesis.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 19:37 |
I remember growing up in the 70īs, and all my friendīs fathers were into Yes, Genesis etc.. The teenagers at that time were discovering Rush and Kansas.
Maybe itīs a generation thing?
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micky
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 19:42 |
WaywardSon wrote:
I remember growing up in the 70īs, and all my
friendīs fathers were into Yes, Genesis etc.. The teenagers at that
time were discovering Rush and Kansas.
Maybe itīs a generation thing? |
it is I suspect to a certain extent.. but more so.. I think it follows
the creative and commerical curve that prog enjoyed during it's heyday
in the early to mid 70's. Prog is an underground musical form by
it's nature.. those are truly great, the 'super-proggers',
brought prog out of the mists and domains of dope smoking intellectual
college males, and in to Joe Six-Pack's bedroom in Topeka
Kansas.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 20:10 |
micky wrote:
WaywardSon wrote:
I remember growing up in the 70īs, and all my friendīs fathers were into Yes, Genesis etc.. The teenagers at that time were discovering Rush and Kansas.
Maybe itīs a generation thing? |
it is I suspect to a certain extent.. but more so.. I think it follows the creative and commerical curve that prog enjoyed during it's heyday in the early to mid 70's. Prog is an underground musical form by it's nature.. those are truly great, the 'super-proggers', brought prog out of the mists and domains of dope smoking intellectual college males, and in to Joe Six-Pack's bedroom in Topeka Kansas.
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Elitist Prog Snob
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spacecraft
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 04 2006
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 20:13 |
Why weren't UK teenagers getiing into Kansas and Rush? in the 70's
Prob cos we had the elite of prog rock, and still do...apart from PFM, there should be np other additions to the super elite of prog rock, especially not heavy metal with long songs, Rush.
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WaywardSon
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Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 20:45 |
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micky
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Posted: July 28 2006 at 21:28 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 00:43 |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 04:41 |
For me the super group definition is: progressive rock bands that combined quality (technical - and compositional skills) at a very high level with selling worldwide many albums (millions) like Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and Pink Floyd did in the Seventies and later ..........and Rush did from the Eighties  !
Jethro Tull could also be one but Camel and VDGG not .... in my opinion.
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Progger
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Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 05:46 |
[/QUOTE] Among the mentioned bands, only Pink Floyd have sold more than Rush, I think. [/QUOTE]
Probably true Rush's most successful period was the 80's when they were not a prog band. Like Genesis they went the commercial route & so those album sales do not count in my mind!
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Raff
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 05:49 |
Progger wrote:
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Among the mentioned bands, only Pink Floyd have sold more than Rush, I think. [/QUOTE]
Probably true Rush's most successful period was the 80's when they were not a prog band. Like Genesis they went the commercial route & so those album sales do not count in my mind! [/QUOTE] I think there is a huge difference between Rush's 'commercial' period and what Genesis did in the Eighties. Maybe I'm speaking as a fan here, but I don't really see many similarities. Rush have always retained their prog sensibilities, while Genesis had no such qualms and went all the way.
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glass house
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Joined: June 16 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4986
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 07:00 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
For me the super group definition is: progressive rock bands that combined quality (technical - and compositional skills) at a very high level with selling worldwide many albums (millions) like Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and Pink Floyd did in the Seventies and later ..........and Rush did from the Eighties !
Jethro Tull could also be one but Camel and VDGG not .... in my opinion. |
Your definition : agree without the selling part, I don't care if a group sells a lot of records. Why not include VDGG in your definition? They do combine quality, technical and compositional skills!!!!!!!
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 08:07 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Progger wrote:
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Among the mentioned bands, only Pink Floyd have sold more than Rush, I think.
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Probably true Rush's most successful period was the 80's when they
were not a prog band. Like Genesis they went the commercial route &
so those album sales do not count in my mind! [/QUOTE] I
think there is a huge difference between Rush's 'commercial' period and
what Genesis did in the Eighties. Maybe I'm speaking as a fan here, but
I don't really see many similarities. Rush have always retained their
prog sensibilities, while Genesis had no such qualms and went all the
way. [/QUOTE]
well said big difference between Genesis and Rush, the only similarity
was the turn away from prog..... Rush did retain prog
sensiblilites, Genesis did not haha... .that's why I called
Rush's 80's stuff prog-related
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 08:38 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
For me the super group definition is: progressive rock bands that combined quality (technical - and compositional skills) at a very high level with selling worldwide many albums (millions) like Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and Pink Floyd did in the Seventies and later ..........and Rush did from the Eighties !
Jethro Tull could also be one but Camel and VDGG not .... in my opinion. |
Well, this is A defnition, and according to your own definition - your are right! I agree. It is simple really - once a definition made, you just see (as objectively as you can) which band complies with it, and it's done - no arguments. All arguments here are the result of slightly diffrent definitions of the subject, hence pointless.
Whether the definition is correct ? - well, this is a different matter .
Edited by eugene - July 29 2006 at 08:39
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carefulwiththataxe
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 29 2006 at 09:39 |
micky wrote:
well said big difference between Genesis and Rush, the only similarity
was the turn away from prog..... Rush did retain prog
sensiblilites, Genesis did not haha... .that's why I called
Rush's 80's stuff prog-related
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I am once again bound to agree with micky. 
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Can we put Rush in the super prog category?
e-mails
between Tony and me last year (we were all overworked/frustrated/too
dedicated at Prog Archives) but in the end we appreciate each
other, we are all just a bunch of quickly hurted, highly dedicated,
hard working, big ego progheads ..