Religion

Despite my being perhaps the most pro-free speech proponent on the site, I would strongly suggest that this thread be closed: although it may be a well-intentioned attempt to engage in a legitimate discussion, it certainly seems on its face to be a deliberate provocation.

I'm an atheist and I used to totally hate religion in all its forms before I started realizing that it's a necessary element to keep society in order. I used to think the church can be completely replaced by the law. But nothing keeps people in line like belief in god, while a criminal can think he will hide from the law or might not even care if he gets punished, fear of a superior being that sees it all and will judge his deeds after death will make him think twice. It has a different side to it of course, i.e. it gives the terrorists a motive but IMO they're just uding it to cover up and if it wasn't there they would've just used something else. It's also important to understand that Islam is much younger than Christianity. Christians have been through the whole terrorism/violence phase back in the days of Spanish inquisition and crusades, and Muslims are going through it now. Every religion has this phase of violence, but it shall pass. So, I don't like it myself but I realize its importance. 

I don't really know. I'm basically at a point in my life where I can choose to believe in God or not. I sit around thinking, something which normally hurts my brain, and I come to the conclusion: if I can't possibly know for sure whether there is a God or not, and if I believe that constantly praying for good things to happen to me instead of trying to make those things happen by myself, then believing in a God is superficial. I actually do think there is a God. I mean, it's plausible, and if you believe that a God is all-powerful and can do anything it wants, then obviously all the great occurances in the Bible/Torah/Koran could have happened. But what puts me in a state of dismay about religion is how people---evangelicals in perticular...watch CBN and Pat Robertson's show once in awhile---use the Bible as a weapon or means to get what they want out of ignorant people. I believe we should continue to move foreward in society, and these people, not necessarily religion, are trying very hard to bring it back to a point hundreds of years in the past. I may be completely wrong, but from my perspective, I believe with atheism comes even more depression at current evens than with those of religious background. It can be uplifting to think there's a God that will save us from this wretched world, and while that may be true, my overall mantra is that we should strive to make this world closer to any supposed Heaven than simply waiting to be delivered to that Heaven.

Edited by stonebeard - July 22 2006 at 12:53

Psychedelia wrote: i disagree that suicide bombers and other religious fanatics using violence are using religion as an excuse. I think that they are truly fanatical and that this is perfectly plausible. Going back to the crusades religion was clearly a large motive for them (especially the first one) and i believe it is the underlying motive for violence rather than anything else.

Im an atheist, and Im fine with that. I don't care if people believe in stuff etc.  Only if it isn't extreme, like christians who says: "Oh my, you are going to hell and will rotten there forever" everytime you say for example "damn" or "crap". That's typical stuff that makes me wanna' slay something! Otherwise, Im fine with it, I just don't care.

stonebeard wrote: I don't really know. I'm basically at a point in my life where I can choose to believe in God or not. I sit around thinking, something which normally hurts my brain, and I come to the conclusion: if I can't possibly know for sure whether there is a God or not, and if I believe that constantly praying for good things to happen to me instead of trying to make those things happen by myself, then believing in a God is superficial. I actually do think there is a God. I mean, it's plausible, and if you believe that a God is all-powerful and can do anything it wants, then obviously all the great occurances in the Bible/Torah/Koran could have happened. But what puts me in a state of dismay about religion is how people---evangelicals in perticular...watch CBN and Pat Robertson's show once in awhile---use the Bible as a weapon or means to get what they want out of ignorant people. I believe we should continue to move foreward in society, and these people, not necessarily religion, are trying very hard to bring it back to a point hundreds of years in the past. I may be completely wrong, but from my perspective, I believe with atheism comes even more depression at current evens than with those of religious background. It can be uplifting to think there's a God that will save us from this wretched world, and while that may be true, my overall mantra is that we should strive to make this world closer to any supposed Heaven than simply waiting to be delivered to that Heaven.

My opinion is that there will always be a section of people who will use religion to meet their own ends, and it doesnt mean that what they say is a fundamental or necessary value of that particular religion, despite what they want you to believe. I do believe that the worst people in a group sadly wind up being seen as a representative of that group, for the sheer fact that their views and actions are the most extreme, and are therefore much more visible. And I, a practicing Christian, am apalled and disgusted by televangelists and those who abuse something that should be for good for their own gain, often at the expense of many.

My primary issue with religion is this:

Almost all religions, IMO, involve an intensely _personal_ search for ultimate truth. Whenever dogma arises as a result, the focus then shifts from personal revelation to the comforts of dogma and ritual. I see this as a kind of mental laziness, in which people believe that by adhering to the comforts of the dogma and ritual, they feel that they have adequately proscribed to the religion, instead of actually trying to duplicate the revelations attained by the enlightened prophet.

My personal belief is that Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, and the Bodhisattva have all reached the SAME essential eternal truths... they just came at it from different "angles", as it were.

Empathy wrote: ^ bhikku beat me to it! Guess I type too slow. In the long run, like heyitsthatguy... I worship HYPNOTOAD!

    
Ooh, that's bad, because I thought I was the slowest typist on the planet.

JrKASperov wrote: Bj-1 wrote: Only if it isn't extreme, like christians who says: "Oh my, you are going to hell and will rotten there forever" everytime you say for example "damn" or "crap".. That's not extreme, that's hypocritical.

Actually I like that, because it means G.W. Bush is eternally condemned for saying sh*t at the G8 summit!