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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2006 at 16:11
^^ I really don't see what you just think you proved.
 
A few million, I think you're inflating numbers here. I also would like to know what these codes and world-views entail, and what Right-Wing talk show hosts are spreading them. Ann Coulter's statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. She knows whats she's doing, and that being as controversial as possible is the best way to get her books sold.
 
Maybe not genuine Socialist, but Michael Moore is certainly getting being asked to comment.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 1225 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:11
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

A few million, I think you're inflating numbers here.
Nope, not at all. Evangelically minded US voters that support things like the Gay Marriage Amendement easily number in the millions. That's why the Republicans pander to them and get their votes.

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Ann Coulter's statements are to be taken with a grain of salt.
Why? Why should she be taken with more of a grain of salt than you favorite boogey man Michael Moore? Just because she peddles in eliminationist rhetoric and wishes death or deportment on those who do not agree with her, unlike him?
Why is she not universally condemned as beyond the pale by the Right? If any Liberal were to match her statements but suggesting that the Right be deported, shot and blown up, they would be hounded and vilified (and quite rightly so, mind you).

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Maybe not genuine Socialist, but Michael Moore is certainly getting being asked to comment.
You're reaching now. He's not even close to being a Socialist, and when was the last time you saw him on CNN or Fox News (unlike Coulter - or Malkin or Bennett or Brooks - or Glenn Beck, for that matter)?

Do you even know what Socialism is? Can you distinguish between that and Social Democracy, European Labour, European Liberalism and even American Liberalism? "Maybe not genuine Socialist"... No kidding. Confused
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:16
Coulter should be taken that way because she has said so herself.
 
Michael Moore undeniably wants to move the US further away from a free-market and closer to socialism. That's what I mean in that respect.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:22
I don't know how this moved to Ann Coulter, but since we're on that subject....
 
I wouldn't mind her so much if she smiled once in awhile and didn't purse her lips like the crabbly old witch who lives in the creaky house at the top of the hill in so many animated kids movies. She is a terrifying bitch and if she truly believes in what she's saying, then I personally believe she should be hounded down and terrorized like a fur-wearing celebrity at a PETA march.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:36
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

 
Michael Moore undeniably wants to move the US further away from a free-market and closer to socialism. That's what I mean in that respect.
 
I think you're giving him too much credit.
  1. The USA Citizen will never be against free market
  2. The U¡SA citizen will never be socialist
  3. Moore doesn't have real power.
 
IMO the guy has found an easy way to make a high level living, it's easy to point his finger at other's mistakes. The USA Government has made a lot of mistakes in different degrees and Moore knows how to exploit them
 
The day the politicians stop making mistakes the guy will die in starvation, he's save because politicians will always make mistakes. The guy is not a Socialist, maybe a moderate Democrat that has found a good source of money.
 
If Bush had said hey people lets defeat Saddam, he's a risk to world freedom, I'm sure most USA would have supported him, why in hell he had to create the massive destruction weapons?
 
Let Moore try to do something instead of just criticizing and then maybe he will deserve some respect, pointing fingers is extremely easy, creating something and being pointed is much harder.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 20 2006 at 01:44
            
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Teaflax View Drop Down
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Points: 1225 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 01:40
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Coulter should be taken that way because she has said so herself.
 
So, if I threaten you and your family with violence but then add "just joking" at the end, that's fine?

Besides, she has never ever backed down from any of her statements in favor of violence against those who do not agree with her, nor has she apologized for saying that Liberals should be deported or that McVeigh should have blown up the NYT building. So, exactly how she herself has claimed she shouldn't be taken seriously - and even why that should count if she did when her opinions and statements are stark and clear as day - I simply don't know. That seems to be more of an excuse for the Right to tolerate her and the inflammatory and hateful rhetoric she trades in. It's despicable, and anyone who does not clearly condemn her is in essence holding her blameless.

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Michael Moore undeniably wants to move the US further away from a free-market and closer to socialism. That's what I mean in that respect.
Does he really? And what do you base this on? Cites, please. The guy is a classic US Democrat - which, in case you didn't know, is miles and miles away from Socialism and by the standards of most nations, about center-right.
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 02:08

I don't see anything particularly wrong with you threatening me if you're joking and state it. Me and my friends call each other fa****s, dick suckers, ugly, stupid, etc I've never been upset about it. My friend recently recovered from cancer and we make fun of him for being bald, having one testicle, etc.
 

Michael Moore has derided capitalism for weeding out businesses with higher prices and low quality products. He has blamed CA’s past energy problems on deregulation. He blames Indian Reservations on capitalism, somehow, regardless of the fact that they’re run in a socialistic manner by a bureaucracy. He continually blames capitalism for crime and poor schooling. On crossfire he said, “Capitalism is a sin.” “This is an evil system.”

 

He hates big business. He hates small business. He was quoted saying “f**k all these small businesses.”

 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 1225 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 02:50
Man, they have you hook, line and sinker. I don't think there's anything I or anyone could say (such as "f**k all these small businesses" being aimed at a particular group of small businesses - MM is nothing if not a businessman) that would make you change your mind. Then again...that's precisely what religious indoctrination is good training for.

But, on the whole, you're just a small cog in the machine of Right wing apologia and demonization. It's just a little disheartening to see.
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Points: 4318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 03:05
    I also live in America, but in the south end of it. Believe it or not, as much as we are all somewhat brown, we also have white supremacy groups (of idiots). Our laws prevents us to even think about using it for something good, since it is slow and moronic most of the times. If we had here the kind of system you have there, I would like to believe that we wouldn't spent it on thngs like the one that starts the topic, but human nature is much to bizarre. I wish I had you legal system for a day, to force industries to behave, people to be responsable, and most of all, to be aware, for respect to the other or for fear to the odd of actually get convicted (and perhaps pay it with life itself) for doing bad things. Come to south America and try to sue somebody for anything that yuo consider harmfull to you, and see what you get. That family sue guy... you should all go to his house and kick him with energy... or send him here, I'll do the kicking myself, while I show him cases that get dissmised by judges that would make you all cry...
¡Beware of the Bee!
   
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Points: 848 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 07:20
^ The guy who sued his family.........probably didn't existLOL, since noone's found any independent account of this story.......another urban myth....I guess those early proto-scientists who believed in spontaneous generation weren't so wrong, after all...Wink.....still, he's provided a useful peg on which to hang an entertaining debate........speaking of which.........my sincere Clap to Teaflax, who's saved me the bother of having to post anything here, since he's said most of it for me (although I might have gone even further to the left than he.....)
"Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 08:45
    I would also like to thank Teaflax for continuing with this. Man, I was getting exhausted.
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Points: 7003 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 10:07
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Coulter should be taken that way because she has said so herself.
 
Michael Moore undeniably wants to move the US further away from a free-market and closer to socialism. That's what I mean in that respect.
 
In much the same way that Christianity has subdivided into various factions who disagree with each other about how the bible should be interpreted (think Catholic/Protestant, then Baptists (assorted), Methodists, evangelicals, Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, Opus Dei, 7th Day Adventists, the Reverend Jim Jones' People's Temple etc) so there are different ideas about capitalism. In recent years the dominant strand in the USA and parts of the EU has been a kind of free market fundamentalism. It is possible to believe that an unrestricted free market is a bad idea (which it is) without being anti capitalist.
 
Michael Moore is not a great example of anti capitalist thought (come to that, he's not a great advertisement for abstract thought either). He's a successful independent film maker and moderately affluent businessman who chooses to live and work in the USA. His children are privately educated. The fact that he advocates a slightly more even distribution of wealth, greater accountability of major corporations and a more efficient social welfare system does not make him Karl Marx.
 
Any Manichean world view is inherently dangerous. Media rentamouths (the majority of whom seem to be right wing, although the few examples that the left has thrown up are no better)  don't change people's opinions, but they do reinforce them. When they reinforce bigotry, ignorance, fear and hatred this has a negative effect on society as a whole - the Anne Coulters of this world degrade us all as human beings, however disingenuously they try to claim otherwise.
 
What made Bill Hicks great (and you say you like him) was his ability to tackle complex issues without reducing them to rabble rousing soundbites. Were he alive today he'd be attacking Michael Moore with as much gusto as he'd be laying into George Dubya, and we'd be better off for it. You cite George Orwell and Kurt Vonnegut as favourite writers. Orwell remained a socialist until his death, despite his disillusionment with Stalin's Soviet Union. How do you equate that with your defence of one dimensional right wing rabble rousers?
 
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I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 21:54
^ One's politcal belief's do nothing to effect the quality of their comedy or writing. George Orwell wrote fantastic books, and he conveyed his message in a tasteful way. Why would that say anything about my enjoyment of his material. Exactly what "one dimensional right wing rabble rousers" have I've defended?
 
Please Teaflax, change my mind. If I'm wrong I'd love to see the light. Tell me what small businesses he was referring to, tell me what he really meant when he called capitalism a sin. Also I don't see what my faith as a catholic has to do with my politcal position. I'm not against abortion, euthanasia, and the death penalty because I'm catholic (not that that would make me right winged), but rather the other way around. I'm not against gay marriage. I don't see how my economic view is effected by my religion.
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Points: 7003 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 14:40
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

^ One's politcal belief's do nothing to effect the quality of their comedy or writing. George Orwell wrote fantastic books, and he conveyed his message in a tasteful way. Why would that say anything about my enjoyment of his material. Exactly what "one dimensional right wing rabble rousers" have I've defended?
 
 
Try Ann Coulter for starters - or have I missed her insightful contributions to Western epistemology somewhere?  
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I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 14:44
 I didn't defend her. Personally, I don't like her, and a majority of the time I don't agree with her. I just said her statements are to be taken with a grain of salt.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 7003 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 16:25
I also would like to know what these codes and world-views entail, and what Right-Wing talk show hosts are spreading them. Ann Coulter's statements are to be taken with a grain of salt. She knows whats she's doing, and that being as controversial as possible is the best way to get her books sold.
 
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

 I didn't defend her. Personally, I don't like her, and a majority of the time I don't agree with her. I just said her statements are to be taken with a grain of salt.
 
Whatever you say.
 
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 17:36

Exactly what I said apparently. I told you I said she should just be taken with a grain of salt, and that is exactly what your quoting of me proves.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 17:41
But in saying that, you're defending her slightly, writing off the severity of what she's saying. Wheter or not she truly means what she's saying, the fact that she's even saying such horrid things is disturbing.
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Points: 3278 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 18:41
What a wiredoConfused, only in America
 
 
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2008 at 18:28
Originally posted by Australian Australian wrote:

only in America
 
 


wise words...

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/06/05/dnt.ct.hit.and.run.wtnh

here's hoping everyone got to work on time...Angry
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