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Points: 1356 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 11:20
Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

This may be only partially relevant but I just read that a suicide bomber in Iraq drove a car loaded with a bomb into a funeral gathering, killing 17.  Wouldn't all people consider that the apex of cowardice?  Is there no shred of decency left?  A funeral is a terrorists target now?


As awful as such acts are, the word "cowardice" hardly applies.
 
According to Wikipedia "Someone who attacks and/or kills a defenseless person is also considered a coward."  Blowing up people who are in public mourning over a loved one would apply.  I stand by my original assessment.


Wikipedia is hardly the most credible source in this matter. Anyone who is prepared to take their own life is hardly a coward, regardless of the manner in which they do it.

cow·ard·ice   Audio pronunciation of "Cowardice" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kour-ds)
n.
Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.
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Points: 1356 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 11:28
Originally posted by spacecraft spacecraft wrote:

Much is made of the Israeli insurgence into the Gaza strip, bombs dropping here, innocent people killed there. But, hardly anyone blinks an eye when the obnoxious, ignorant and arogant race ( not England, but the Arabs, and Palestinions in particular) kill Jews.


I beg your pardon? Confused
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 14:15
Hamas threatens further rocket attacks, and Gaza prepares for all out war with Israel..

On the brink?
    

Edited by Blacksword - July 02 2006 at 14:16
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 14:41
^  Blacksword, is it not all out war already?  I consider gunfire back and forth war.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 15:59
^ I think so yes, but it's a question of what words you choose to describe the situation. I'm sure if you asked PM Olmert if he was at war he would say 'No' for reasons of PR.

If it gets to a point, and it will, when Hamas starts fighting back, the term 'war' will be unavoidable.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 16:21
Hamas gunmen are already fighting back.  Its definately war at this point, just as I think 2002 Operation Defensive Shield was war.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 16:57
Hamas threatens to attack Israeli schools if IDF incursion into Gaza continues
By Avi Issacharoff (in Ramallah) and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents, Haaretz Service and Agencies

Hamas' armed wing threatened on Sunday to attack Israeli schools, institutions and power plants if Israel, pursuing a military campaign to free a kidnapped soldier held in Gaza, continued its air strikes against infrastructure in Gaza.

"If they continue with these attacks we will strike similar targets in the Zionist Occupation which we have not targeted until now," Abu Ubaida, a spokesman for Hamas' Iz al-Din al-Qassam, said.

Israel has launched air strikes against Gaza's main power plant and road bridges as part of an offensive launched last week to free Corporal Gilad Shalit, who was kidnapped by militants including members of Hamas in a cross-border raid.

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"If the Occupation continues aggression and terrorism against our people ... it will drag the region into a sea of blood and the consequences will be terrible. We still have many options," Abu Ubaida said.

Abbas slams IAF strike on Haniyeh's office
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas on Sunday criticized a "criminal" Israel Air Force missile strike on the Gaza offices of Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh.

Abbas and Haniyeh met Sunday morning, and after the meeting surveyed Haniyeh's damaged office together, waving through a hole in the wall.

"The world must understand that this is a dirty, criminal act," Abbas said.

An IAF attack helicopter launched a missile before dawn Sunday striking Haniyeh's office in Gaza City. Neither Haniyeh nor any of his aides were in the vicinity at the time of the bombing, but the building itself was damaged.

Haniyeh arrived quickly to survey the damage done to his Gaza office and to condemn the attack.

"This is a policy of the jungle and of arrogance," Haniyeh told Reuters, adding that the strike "targeted a symbol of the Palestinian people."

"Nothing will affect our spirit and nothing will affect our steadfastness," said Haniyeh.

Israel Radio reported that the structure went up in flames, and firefighters rushed to the scene shortly after the attack to extinguish the fire.

Annan: IAF strike on Haniyeh's office 'inadvisable'
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan on Sunday called the strike on Haniyeh's officer "inadvisable", saying Palestinian institutions must be preserved as the basis of a Middle East peace.

"I remain very concerned about the need to preserve Palestinian institutions and infrastructure. They will be the basis for an eventual two-state solution, and now that's in the interests of both Israel and the Palestinians," Annan told a news conference at an African Union summit in Gambia.

"It would therefore seem inadvisable to carry out actions that would have the opposite effect," he added.

The attack was similar to Israel's strike against the offices of the Palestinian public security minister - who, like Haniyeh, is a member of Hamas - two days earlier.

The assault on Haniyeh's office indicates a desire by Israel to heighten pressure on Hamas in order to yield the release of abducted Israel Defense Forces soldier Gilad Shalit.

Vice Premier Shimon Peres said the attack on the office of Haniyeh came "in the middle of the night" on Sunday, when Israeli officials knew Haniyeh would not be present.

"It was a clear warning that he has to stop this double behavior," Peres told CNN's Late Edition. "Either it's a government with all the responsibilities of a government, or it's a terrorist organization, with all the consequences that stem from it."

More air strikes
In a separate pre-dawn strike, the IAF hit the headquarters of a Hamas-run security organization in Gaza, killing one of the group's operatives and injuring another, Israel Radio reported.

The IAF also targeted and killed one Hamas operative in the northern Gaza town of Jabalya, according to Israel Radio.

Several sites were targeted across Gaza over the weekend. There were no casualties in any of the incidents, Palestinian medical workers said.

The attacks were on what the IDF called a "terrorist training facility" in the south of the Strip, and on a building in Gaza City which Palestinians said was used by Hamas militants.

The military confirmed attacking a Hamas facility in Gaza, and in a former Israeli settlement near the town of Rafah near the Egyptian border which was abandoned in last year's Israeli withdrawal and then taken over by Palestinian militants.

Palestinians said the new occupants, activists of the Abu Rish Brigades, loosely affiliated with Fatah, recently evacuated the complex, fearing such a strike.

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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 17:06
Once again, the mainstream media chooses to play down/ignore the presence of Israeli fighter jets flying over the summer retreat of the Syrian leader. The jets were apparently fired upon and retreated.\ This does have the real potential to escalate..

Provocative..
    

Edited by Blacksword - July 02 2006 at 17:07
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 17:13
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Once again, the mainstream media chooses to play down/ignore the presence of Israeli fighter jets flying over the summer retreat of the Syrian leader. The jets were apparently fired upon and retreated.\ This does have the real potential to escalate..

Provocative..
    
 
Blacksword, this is hardly new news.  This was days ago.  I seriously doubt the Syrians chased the Israelis away.  They are just saying that to save face.  During the six day war Syrian state radio said that they shot down over 80 Israeli Jets and were advancing on Haifa. 
 
The Syrians are smart, they won't fire on the planes because they no they can't win this fight, if it comes.  That of course wont stop them and Iran from funding Hizbullah and Hamas.
 
American news channels talked about this quite a bit.
 
It was interesting, I watched BBC News last night, very different from CNN/Fox News.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 17:19
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Once again, the mainstream media chooses to play down/ignore the presence of Israeli fighter jets flying over the summer retreat of the Syrian leader. The jets were apparently fired upon and retreated.\ This does have the real potential to escalate.. Provocative..     

 

Blacksword, this is hardly new news.  This was days ago.  I seriously doubt the Syrians chased the Israelis away.  They are just saying that to save face.  During the six day war Syrian state radio said that they shot down over 80 Israeli Jets and were advancing on Haifa. 

 

The Syrians are smart, they won't fire on the planes because they no they can't win this fight, if it comes.  That of course wont stop them and Iran from funding Hizbullah and Hamas.

 

American news channels talked about this quite a bit.

 

It was interesting, I watched BBC News last night, very different from CNN/Fox News.


I know this not hot off the press, but this is serious and the BBC and ITN have not even mentioned it on TV. You had to go out of your way to find the news on their websites. It's as if they are under instruction to play down the potential seriousness of the situation.

Syria may not have fired on the jets...but they may have. Who knows. They are within their rights to do so, and their armed forces are quite formidable, certainly more so than Iraqs ever were. It seems that Israel may be deliberatly baiting them to pull them into the conflict.
    
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 17:23
^ Good points Blacksword.  English media isn't mentioning this, I'm shocked.  The Syrian flyovers were talked about extensively on Fox News, and less so on CNN.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2006 at 03:23
Update:

Palestinian militants have given Israel until Tuesday to release Palestinian prisoners or 'face the consequences' whatever that means. A degree of sabre rattling, I'm sure.

BBC Report
    

Edited by Blacksword - July 03 2006 at 03:23
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 00:33
Update from Jpost.com:

Quote Jul. 5, 2006 0:06 | Updated Jul. 5, 2006 5:23
IDF raises alert on Syrian border
By YAAKOV KATZ

 

The IDF has raised the level of alert along the northern border with Syria out of fear that President Bashar Assad would launch a strike against Israel in response to a recent IAF buzz of his palace.

Syrian military forces, IDF officers confirmed Tuesday, have also gone on high alert, and the assumption in the IDF is that Assad would order a harsh military response if Israel decided to take additional steps against Damascus in relation to the kidnapping of Cpl. Gilad Shalit in the Gaza Strip.

The type of response is unknown at this stage, but officers said it could be a missile strike on IDF installations or communities in the North. Another possibility, military sources said, is that Syria would use its proxy - the Hizbullah in Lebanon - to launch an attack against Israel in its place.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Tuesday issued a veiled threat against Syria, vowing to strike "those who sponsor" the terrorists in the Gaza Strip who abducted Shalit. Speaking at a business conference in Beersheba, Olmert said he had ordered the IDF to push forward with efforts "to strike terrorists and those who sent them and those who sponsor them," an apparent reference to Syria. "None of them will be immune."

On Monday, Defense Minister Amir Peretz issued a similar threat, warning that Assad would be held personally responsible if Shalit was harmed. "We will know how to reach everyone involved in the kidnapping and everyone who is responsible for his fate," Peretz said.

Last week, four IAF fighter jets buzzed Assad's summer residence in Latakia, Syria, to try to pressure him to persuade Damascus-based Hamas leader Kahled Meshaal to release Shalit. Senior defense officials said Tuesday that Israel was considering taking additional steps against Syria as part of its overall effort to retrieve the abducted soldier.

According to the officials, Syria has raised its level of alert along the border in wake of last week's flyover of Assad's palace and would try to demonstrate military might if Israel took a similar action. Last week, the Northern Command was warned of the flyover before it happened, to give commanders stationed along the border time to prepare for a possible violent Syrian response.

AP contributed to this report.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2006 at 03:25
^ That represents a potentially more serious escalation of the crisis than the rocket attack on Ashkelon in recent days.

BBC Report

With both sides baiting each other like this, it's obvious they are trying to escalate this conflict beyond control, at this specific point in time. The abduction of Gilad Shalit and the rocket attacks, warrent response from Israel, but not the major conflageration they appear to be trying to bring about.
    

Edited by Blacksword - July 05 2006 at 03:26
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 10:52
Well, this seems to be going very well. If Israel keeps up this pressure it should all be over in no time. The kidknapped soldier is bound to be released, and the Palestianians will see the error of their ways. Perhaps after that the Middle East can live happily ever after..

I dont think..


    8 down, a few hundred thousand to go...

Edited by Blacksword - July 06 2006 at 10:53
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^  It looks like we are in for a second Operation Defensive Shield.  So much for "convergence" from the West Bank.
 
I thought the original incursion was appropriate, but I think the situation is spinning out of control.
 
Blacksword, I thought you might find this editorial interesting, from Haaretz:

Quote
We need a Nasrallah
By Aluf Benn

What is more frightening: a Syrian Scud missile with a chemical warhead that can hit Tel Aviv and kill thousands of people with poison gas, or a Palestinian Qassam missile full of primitive explosives, which hits Sderot and sometimes Ashkelon, and causes a small amount of damage? The destructive power of the Syrian missile is far greater, and yet few, if any, Israelis think about its existence. The Qassam, however, is seen as a serious security threat, which is of concern to the prime minister, the security services, the media and the Israeli public.

There is a simple explanation for the inverse ratio between the performance capability of the enemy's missiles and the level of anxiety about them: The security threat does not stem from the technology of weapons systems, but from the finger on the trigger. Israel's leaders portray Syrian President Bashar Assad as the principal inciter of terror in the region and as the person responsible for the kidnapping of soldier Gilad Shalit. But they were not afraid Assad would launch Scuds, even after Israeli warplanes buzzed his palace. He may be a terrorist, but he is not crazy. If he presses the launch button, he will risk a harsh reaction from Israel that will endanger his rule and his country. That is why Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz can irritate him without fear.

As opposed to Assad, the Qassam operators in Gaza cannot be deterred by an F-16 fighter plane, and their hand does not tremble when they launch another missile over the fence. Their strength stems from the weakness of the Palestinian Authority and from the absence of a central security force in Gaza.

Israel has suffered from this problem since its earliest days: Terror develops in a place where the Arab government is weak. That was the case in Jordan in the 1950s and 1960s, in Lebanon in the 1970s and 1980s, and now in the PA. Centralized governments with a strong army, like Syria, Egypt and Jordan today, are able to ensure quiet on the border, and their behavior is predictable. Wherever there is chaos, there are problems of "ongoing security."

It is enough to see what is happening in Lebanon. The moment Hezbollah took control over the south of the country and armed itself with thousands of Katyushas and other rockets, a stable balance of deterrence was created on both sides of the border. The withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from Lebanon in 2000 was made possible not only because of the daring of then prime minister Ehud Barak, but also thanks to Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, who conducts a policy of "one law and one weapon" on the other side.

Nasrallah hates Israel and Zionism no less than do the Hamas leaders, Shalit's kidnappers and the Qassam squads. But as opposed to them - he has authority and responsibility, and therefore his behavior is rational and reasonably predictable. Under the present conditions, that's the best possible situation. Hezbollah is doing a better job of maintaining quiet in the Galilee than did the pro-Israeli South Lebanese Army.

In the territories there is no such Nasrallah today. PA Chair Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) is opposed to terror and wants diplomatic negotiations, but he operates as a tortured intellectual and a commentator, rather than as an authoritative leader. The Hamas government, which at first showed promising signs of organization and discipline, has behaved like him and shrugged its shoulders during the kidnapping crisis. The weapons in Gaza are split among organizations, gangs and clans, which Israel has difficulty deterring.

The events of the past weeks in Gaza have once again demonstrated that the essential condition for a quiet border is a responsible finger on the trigger on the other side. The conclusion we must come to is that until the appearance of a factor that will take control of security and weapons on the West Bank - Israel will not be able to withdraw from there. Negotiations with Abbas are not sufficient, nor is an agreement with him. It is more important that his statement about "one law and one weapon" be implemented on the ground. Even if it is implemented by a Palestinian Nasrallah
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 15:40
^ Interesting read, Nets. Lets hope Aluf Benn is correct in his appraisal of the situation. Lets hope that the assumed rational nature of Bashar Assad prevents Syria from rising to the bait that Israel is putting out.

In reality, Syria will not cease supporting Hamas. Assad will no doubt be aware of Israels intentions to 'irritate' him. Lets hope that his irritation does not turn into rage. Israel are playing a dangerous game here. If they have so far failed to subdue Syrias support for Hamas, there's little reason why Israels scare tactics should succeed now. Israel may be gesturing more than anything else, in their fly pasts over Assads palace, but what are the actual consequences of this tactic back firing. Syria could indeed attack srael, inviiting death on themselves, but either way Israel hold all the aces. It may mean sacrificing a few thousand Israelis in Tel Aviv, but the end result would be the demise of a major enemy, and supplier of Hamas. A worthwhile sacrifice?

It's a sickening thought, but are we making too many assumptions about both sides? Is Aluf Benn merely trying to alay Israeli civilian fears of an attack from Syria, in his editorial? A downplaying of the situation.

Maybe he's right, but I for one dont really trust Assad, and I have difficulty with Olmerts agenda too, I'm afraid.

Lets hope sense and peace prevail.
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Points: 8238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 16:48
Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

This may be only partially relevant but I just read that a suicide bomber in Iraq drove a car loaded with a bomb into a funeral gathering, killing 17.  Wouldn't all people consider that the apex of cowardice?  Is there no shred of decency left?  A funeral is a terrorists target now?


As awful as such acts are, the word "cowardice" hardly applies.
 
According to Wikipedia "Someone who attacks and/or kills a defenseless person is also considered a coward."  Blowing up people who are in public mourning over a loved one would apply.  I stand by my original assessment.


Wikipedia is hardly the most credible source in this matter. Anyone who is prepared to take their own life is hardly a coward, regardless of the manner in which they do it.

cow·ard·ice   Audio pronunciation of "Cowardice" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kour-ds)
n.
Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.

 
I suppose everyone on this forum should consider you now to be a better source of definitions than Wikipedia.  I am humbled.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 05:18
Two Israeli troops captured by Hezbollah, on the Lebanese border..
    Breaking News (BBC)

Edited by Blacksword - July 12 2006 at 05:18
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Points: 12625 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 07:59
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Two Israeli troops captured by Hezbollah, on the Lebanese border..
    Breaking News (BBC)
 
This is looking very bad. Some of my friends have been called to their reserve units to replace the regular army units so they can be available for whatever is to come.
I am waiting to be called as well, probably.
 
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