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Topic ClosedIs the Middle East going to war?
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2006 at 18:09
Washington may have forbid Israel to use force in the past, but what are the consequences for Israel if they ignore Washington? Not much.

Generally, the US IS in full support of Israel. They may grimace occassionally at Israels heavy handedness, but they are very much behind the Jewish state. I can understand the US supporting this vital democracy in the ME, but balance in their views can still be possible, while supporting the democratic principles Israel stands for.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2006 at 18:18
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Washington may have forbid Israel to use force in the past, but what are the consequences for Israel if they ignore Washington? Not much.

Generally, the US IS in full support of Israel. They may grimace occassionally at Israels heavy handedness, but they are very much behind the Jewish state. I can understand the US supporting this vital democracy in the ME, but balance in their views can still be possible, while supporting the democratic principles Israel stands for.
 
That isn't true.  The aid pursestrings are very powerful, and depending on congress, are loosened and tightened based on American approval/dissaproval.  America is pretty responsible for Israel completely changing the WB fence route.
 
 
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Points: 904 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 03:39
Powder keg? I don't think so. What could happen? War between the two countries? Isn't that already happening?
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 05:16
Originally posted by JrKASperov JrKASperov wrote:

Powder keg? I don't think so. What could happen? War between the two countries? Isn't that already happening?


Yes, it been happening since 1948.

I think the fear is that the conflict could expand, if other countries, sympathetic to the Palestinian position, decide to get involved. This will depend on how heavy handed Israel are, and of course how far the PA decide to push Israel, by killing those they have taken hostage, or by continuing rocket attacks.

You're right. This is, basically nothing new, and the conflict has had the potential to expand in the past. I think there is an almost irrational sense of 'apocalypse' in the air at present, due to fear of global terror, Iran and North Koreas nuclear programs. Many people believe that this conflict is quite central to the overal problem, and I share that view to a point.
    
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 06:17
Update:

Israel has captured and detained dozens of Hamas government ministers and law makers. Israeli tanks are poised to move on northern Gaza.

BBC Report
    

Edited by Blacksword - June 29 2006 at 06:18
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Points: 20248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 06:22
It has not been this bad in a few decades if you ask me.
 
You have Israeli forces taking hostages/prisoners ministers of another Gov't. That has been unseen in quite a while
 
They had besieged the buildings before, but not taken as prisoners.
 
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - June 29 2006 at 08:50
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 08:09
Perhaps it's the beginning of this....

Gog & Magog


    
    

Edited by Blacksword - June 29 2006 at 08:10
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 08:44
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

It has not been this bad in a few decades if you ask me.
 
You have Israeli forces taking hostages/prisoners ministers of another Gov't. That has been unseen in quite a while
 
They has besieged the buildings before, but not taken as prisoners.
 
 
 


yeah... that caught my attention immediately... then again it's not like they are not at war.. and haven't been for many many years...
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 11:14
The question is....When ISN'T the Middle East going to war?


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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

The question is....When ISN'T the Middle East going to war?



the better question is... has there been a time that it HASN'T been... even before 1948.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 11:35
Sean:  I think it is important to distinguish the situation of the hostages.  The Hamas ministers are in air conditioned Israeli prisons, with access to the outside world and are living under humanitarian conditions.  The Israeli corporal is in some rat infested Khan Yunis hellhole with a blindfold and rifle in his face, if he isn't dead yet.
 
Progtologist; Micky; Sean:  Good point, I should have said is the ME moving towards a flare up in the state of war that has existed since 1947.  Your right, technically Israel is "officially" at war with every member of the Arab league, except Jordan and Egypt.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 13:04
Opinion on the Israeli incursions is very divided in Isarel too. The Israeli press are not convinced the actions will help secure the release of their young soldier.

    BBc Report

Edited by Blacksword - June 29 2006 at 13:04
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 13:21
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Opinion on the Israeli incursions is very divided in Isarel too. The Israeli press are not convinced the actions will help secure the release of their young soldier.

    BBc Report
 
That isn't exactly true.  Even the dovish, left-wing, get out of the territories Meretz party is supporting the incursion.  This is the most united Israel has been in a while, politically.
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 13:49
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Opinion on the Israeli incursions is very divided in Isarel too. The Israeli press are not convinced the actions will help secure the release of their young soldier.     BBc Report

 

That isn't exactly true.  Even the dovish, left-wing, get out of the territories Meretz party is supporting the incursion.  This is the most united Israel has been in a while, politically.


I guess the Israeli press have their own agenda, like any media. But, it is the job of the free press to question the actions of those democratically elected to lead. Even if they dont always reflect public opinion.
    
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 13:58
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Opinion on the Israeli incursions is very divided in Isarel too. The Israeli press are not convinced the actions will help secure the release of their young soldier.     BBc Report

 

That isn't exactly true.  Even the dovish, left-wing, get out of the territories Meretz party is supporting the incursion.  This is the most united Israel has been in a while, politically.


I guess the Israeli press have their own agenda, like any media. But, it is the job of the free press to question the actions of those democratically elected to lead. Even if they dont always reflect public opinion.
    
 
Of course Blacksword.  The Israeli press does ten to lean left, especially Haaretz and Yediot Achronot, but the Jerusalem Post is right, so it balances out.  And both sides criticize the government incessantly, usually with different takes on the same issue.  "Your being to tough...you're not being tough enough!"  etc.
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Points: 8238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 14:15
This may be only partially relevant but I just read that a suicide bomber in Iraq drove a car loaded with a bomb into a funeral gathering, killing 17.  Wouldn't all people consider that the apex of cowardice?  Is there no shred of decency left?  A funeral is a terrorists target now?
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 14:28
Originally posted by Chicapah Chicapah wrote:

This may be only partially relevant but I just read that a suicide bomber in Iraq drove a car loaded with a bomb into a funeral gathering, killing 17.  Wouldn't all people consider that the apex of cowardice?  Is there no shred of decency left?  A funeral is a terrorists target now?
 
That is what they do.  Weddings are also frequent targets, in Israel and Iraq, and now even Jordan.
 
 
Nothing is worse though, than when they attack nursery schools though.  How can human beings do that?  All of the schools in Sderot, an Israeli town near Gaza, had to close a month early because of the Qassam rocket attacks from the strip. 


Edited by NetsNJFan - June 29 2006 at 14:32
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Points: 8238 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 14:50
I don't know, man.  How can any religion, no matter how radical, imagine a reward in heaven for such atrocities?  News items like this crush any hopes I have for peace in the middle east.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 15:00
UPDATE: from Yediot Achronot
 
 
Hamas officials to stand trial

Israel plans to submit criminal charges against senior Hamas leaders arrested Wednesday night, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz rules; according to Central Command chief, detainees won't be used as bargaining chip
Aviram Zino

 Attorney General Menachem Mazuz ordered security forces to carry out criminal, rather than civilian arrests of Hamas senior officials, so that they can be tried according to the Terror-Prevention Act, sources in the Justice Ministry told Ynet Thursday. The detainees launched a hunger strike.

Vice Premier Shimon Peres said in an interview to CNN that Israel intended to submit indictments against the Hamas members under arrest.

Peres was asked in the interview why the Hamas top figures were arrested. He answered by saying that their arrest is not arbitrary, and added that they will stand trial and they will be able to defend themselves.

Meanwhile, Central Command Chief Yair Naveh said that Hamas members would not be used as bargaining chips, adding that they would be charged.

Some of Hamas members under arrest (Photo: AFP)

 

"The arrested senior figures are tied to financing and aiding terror attacks. Just this year Hamas killed six civilians in Judea and Samaria, kidnapped Nuriel Sasson a few months ago, and carried out shooting attacks in roads in the last few days," Naveh said.

 

Examining arrests

 

Shortly after the establishment of the Hamas government, sources at the Attorney General's Office began consultations on how to act against Hamas on the legal level.

 

In recent days a request was received by the political rank in Jerusalem and the Shin Bet to look into the possibility of arresting senior members of the Palestinian Legislative Council.

 

In general there are a number of accepted paths in such a case – the first is an administrative detention, usually carried out when there is a shortage of witnesses, or when there is a desire not to expose intelligence information. The second path is the criminal arrests, requiring a higher level of eye witnesses, beyond reasonable doubt.

 

It was this path that was chosen in accordance with the Terror Prevention Act. The Justice Ministry spokesman explained that all of the arrestees were Hamas officials, which is a terrorist organization, and their membership in a terror organization is a severe violation.

 

Sources in the ministry say the arrests could have taken place two months ago, but the decision to arrest them had to be taken by the political rank, and was therefore only carried out tonight, apparently following recent security developments.

--------------------------------------------------------
 


Edited by NetsNJFan - June 29 2006 at 15:04
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 15:37
hahah.... that's what I've loved about the Israeli's... they don't pussyfoot around do they..


you just knew the  situation was going to get bad when terrorists are elected to political office.  I'll need to read up on what's going on though... he who has the guns makes the rules of course, but under what laws would they be charged, and are they subject to them. 


Edited by micky - June 29 2006 at 15:37
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