How prog are Boston?

Ivan, I've promised to ignore you, except that that's really difficult to do when you lie unabashedly like that.

No one has refuted the elements of AOR in Kansas in any way whatsoever.

They've either said they can't hear it, that they don't care/it doesn't matter or just that I'm "wrong" (which may be a textbook definition of a refutation, but it's really not worth much when it is not backed up by a shred of fact). Hardly solid arguments, even using the most generous definitions of both words.

Let me pull out two facts, then. You yourself wrote: "If you say rednecks because they add country music influence, you're right" and "They add Hard Rock? Yes, that's also truth".

That you noted that they did the latter to not be considered sissy is not only a hoot and a half, but another feather in my cap, because Prog is never ever about being a posturing Rawk n Roll tough guy.

Therefore, no one has refuted my conclusions nor my methodology; in fact, quite a few people have confirmed it, while supposedly arguing against me. In fact that list is becoming about as long as your list of supposed refuters.

So, I beg you, Ivan, if you'll just do me the small courtesy of not lying, I will do my best to going back to ignoring you.


Edited by Teaflax - June 26 2006 at 14:23

This isnt an argument or a discussion.

Its another peeing contest and it is getting really boring.

Teaflax wrote: I'm sorry, Tony, but I cannot let lies stand undisputed. I don't mind people calling me names or complaining about my attitude - that's fine. But when you lie about me, you've crossed a line.

This thread had deteriorated long before anyone disputed who said what about who and why....

I dont like to see the word "lie" in a discussion. There may be misinterpretations,exaggerations,mistaken impressions or even mischievous disinformation,but no one is deliberately and maliciously lying surely?

I get unfriendly when people mischaracterize what I have written - I think that's only fair.

Of course, it's hard for me to judge whether the misrepresentation of events is deliberate or due to a genuine inability to follow my fairly simple and obvious points.

So, if it's not a lie...well, you do the math.

^Nope, not at all. Point me to one example of that, please (and do remember; criticizing something someone else likes doesn't apply).

I get upset when people misuse terminology, because I value communication (it is, after all, the very building block of civilization). I get upset when people do not argue the points made, but instead either slam me for utterly irrelevant things or argue an entirely different line of reasoning. I get upset when empirical points are ignored or claimed to be wrong without a hint of a counter-argument. I get upset when certain Prog heads complain about the state of the charts and how most mainstream music is all crap (and how Prog is sooo much better) and then praise bands that are in many, quite obvious incredibly similar to the artists they deride.

That's all.


Edited by Teaflax - June 26 2006 at 17:14

This is my initial post: 

"AOR bollox. Not Prog, and the continued association in some people's minds is just sad (and points the way to why SB and others are seen as a actual Prog bands)."

What hurtful little comment is in there? It's directed first at the band, who I think is almost unspeakably awful, and then I draw the not entirely far-fetched conclusion that their wide acceptance here explains - at least in part - why AOR/Soft Rock is rarely remarked upon as being a stand-out part of a Prog-related band's compositional style.

Where is the insult?

Teaflax wrote: This is my initial post:  "AOR bollox. Not Prog, and the continued association in some people's minds is just sad (and points the way to why SB and others are seen as a actual Prog bands)." What hurtful little comment is in there? It's directed first at the band, who I think is almost unspeakably awful, and then I draw the not entirely far-fetched conclusion that their wide acceptance here explains - at least in part - why AOR/Soft Rock is rarely remarked upon as being a stand-out part of a Prog-related band's compositional style. Where is the insult?

1. "AOR bollox". 'nuff said.
2. Connecting Boston and SB is ridiculous. You may do it, but in doing so you insult SB fans. Remember: It's undisputed that SB have AOR influences. But that doesn't make them an AOR band. It doesn't mean that they're similar to Boston.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: 1. "AOR bollox". 'nuff said.

No, not "nuff said". Not at all.

If I say I hate broccoli, do you take horrible offence because you love broccoli? I would really hope not.

So, why would you - or anyone that isn't Tom Scholtz et cohortes take umbrage at me describing what I feel them to be? Please explain that to me in some terms other than "because I say so".

MikeEnRegalia wrote: 2. Connecting Boston and SB is ridiculous. You may do it, but in doing so you insult SB fans. Remember: It's undisputed that SB have AOR influences. But that doesn't make them an AOR band. It doesn't mean that they're similar to Boston.

If they have AOR influences, and Boston is an AOR band (the AOR band, many would say), how could there not be similarities?

And, pray tell, why is it an insult? At most, it could be one if you happen to think that Boston suck and you love SB - even then you'd have to be incredibly thin-skinned to take it as a personal insult rather than just a fallacy.

In the latter case, you would have to argue why what I have identified numerous times as clear US Radio Rock influences in Spock's Beard's music isn't that kind of influence, but rather somethign else (moot in your case, since you've admitted to it being a notable component of their sound).

The fact that people do get insulted could of course be taken as me having hit a nerve. That certainly makes more sense than getting all huffy because some Swedish asshole with too much time on his hands doesn't like the same bands you like.

*Yawn* You win, Ivan. There is no reason to argue with someone who doesn't even know what he's arguing about. Please refrain from commenting on my posts or making statements about my opinions, and I will give you the same courtesy from now on.

Bye now, Ivan.

The wall being suitably drenched and bladders emptied,I am finally fed up of sitting here getting splashed..............