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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 03:31 |
RycheMan wrote:
Whats in the charts? Britney Spears, Madonna, Hip Hop, Rap, Eminem etc
I donīt think you can compare Boston to that lot. |
Do
you honestly think that there's that huge a compositional difference
between a Boston song and a Britney or Madonna song?
Aiming for the lowest common denominator with cadence-based repetitive,
short and simple melody lines over regular harmonies is the name of the
game. You can like one practitioner of the pandering arts and not the
other - that is entirely your prerogative. But slamming one while
praising the other is an entirely different issue.
Edited by Teaflax - June 25 2006 at 04:31
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 09:25 |
Yes there is a big difference between a Britney or Madonna song and a Boston song.
Listen to Papa donīt preach by Madonna, then listen to Longtime/ Foreplay by Boston.
If you canīt hear the difference then you canīt be listening that hard.
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 13:05 |
To be honest, I've only ever heard one Boston song- 'Foreplay'- that even came close to prog; I'd have said it would have been pushing it to say they had 'some prog influence'... Nonetheless I love their debut. I'm a fairly recent (over the past year or two) convert to the world of AOR but that was one of the first albums of the genre I heard many years ago. The other album I heard of theirs, 'Don't Look Back', was pretty weak I felt- it was a replica of the debut and far inferior, imo.
Edited by salmacis - June 25 2006 at 13:48
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 13:54 |
^^^^
Yes, the debut was great, so what if it isnīt prog. I agree Donīt look Back was really weak, then things improved on Third Stage.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: Aē Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 14:05 |
They were talented musicians, but if you look at the compositions, they really aren't as strong as they may appear on the surface. They are, however, darn infectious. I used to love the debut, and "Don't Look Back." I don't own copies anymore, but I will find myself singing along when I hear any of the songs. I guess now, I would call them a guilty pleasure.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 17:42 |
RycheMan wrote:
Listen to Papa donīt preach by Madonna, then listen to Longtime/ Foreplay by Boston.
If you canīt hear the difference then you canīt be listening that hard. |
There
are differences to be sure (and I'm not gonna dredge up some obscure
Boston song to check it - maybe the one track has something goign for
it, but as a whole, Boston has precious little depth to the
songwriting, except maybe in some of the arrangements).
Papa Don't Preach and More Than a Feeling aren't worlds apart on a
level of pure songwriting. They are certainly closer to each other than
they are to even a selection of more easily approached tracks from Prog
greats like Roundabout, Fallen Angel, The Boys in the Band, I Know What
I Like etc.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 18:06 |
Teaflax wrote:
AOR bollox. Not Prog, and the continued association in some people's
minds is just sad (and points the way to why SB and others are seen as
a actual Prog bands).
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SB are an actual Prog band.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21121
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 18:26 |
Teaflax wrote:
Papa Don't Preach and More Than a Feeling aren't worlds apart on a
level of pure songwriting. They are certainly closer to each other than
they are to even a selection of more easily approached tracks from Prog
greats like Roundabout, Fallen Angel, The Boys in the Band, I Know What
I Like etc.
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I Know What I Like ... yes, a truly progressive song indeed.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 19:18 |
Snow Dog wrote:
SB are an actual Prog band.
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If AOR can be seen as Prog, indeed they are. But, sadly, pork ain't beef, no matter how much you keep claiming it is.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 19:24 |
Teaflax wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
SB are an actual Prog band.
| If AOR can be seen as Prog, indeed they are. But, sadly, pork ain't beef, no matter how much you keep claiming it is.
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Pork ain't beef? Yeah I new that, can't rember claiming otherwise. But..AOR isn't Prog. Spock's Beard on the other hand, are.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: June 25 2006 at 22:50 |
Teaflax wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
SB are an actual Prog band.
| If AOR can be seen as Prog, indeed they are. But, sadly, pork ain't beef, no matter how much you keep claiming it is.
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Thats exactly what you said about Kansas. Sadly you donīt want to accept that both these bands have been accepted into the archives (see the genres on the front page)
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 07:25 |
^Exactly. And I stand by that, especially since I've proven it time and again without any kind of refutation.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21121
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 08:06 |
Teaflax wrote:
^Exactly. And I stand by that, especially since I've proven it time and again without any kind of refutation.
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You're pretty proud of that, aren't you? No refutation = approval. Simple rules for simple minds ...
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 08:45 |
Mike, you do know that peppering lame insults with smileys don't make them any more clever, right?
Until you show yourself to have the capacity to discuss things on a
level somewhat above incessant repetition of points entirely irrelevant
to the actual matter at hand, I don't really think you should be
throwing rocks in that there big ol' glass house, m'kay?
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21121
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 10:10 |
^ you accusing me of insults AND then talking about glass houses ... no comment. BTW: I was actually serious - your way of thinking is kind of simplistic, deducing from a lack of feedback that there IS none.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:15 |
There is absolutely no lack of feedback - witness the TFK thread -
there's just none that even gets close to adressing the issue. If you
mean that there's a serious lack of constructive and well-reasoned
feedback based on an understanding of what it is I am saying, that much
is true.
Interestingly, a lot of the "arguments" that are supposed to be
refuting my point only strengthen it, including the ones about no one
knowing what Prog really is any more, and not least the one that I think
you wrote about elitism, effectively branding TFK and SB as "populist
Prog" - I really couldn't have said it better myself.
Edited by Teaflax - June 26 2006 at 11:18
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21121
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:24 |
I don't care what 5 out of 100 prog experts say ... my own opinion is confirmed by the majority, and that settles the matter for me.
BTW: You keep ignoring the one point in my posts which refutes you: I accept your claim that SB/TFK have a mainstream/AOR influence. But: that was never the issue. The question is: Does that have a serious impact on their prog status? I say no, and you can't refute that ... it's a subjective decision. Now: Of course someone who likes Yes and Genesis will not automatically like SB/TFK, that is obvious. But there is a good chance that he will like them, if he doesn't mind the AOR influences. And THAT is backed by the average ratings and reviews that these bands get here. Occasionally someone complains about the vocals, but most people don't have a problem with it.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:35 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
my own opinion is confirmed by the majority, and that settles the matter for me.
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Baaa.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Now: Of course someone who likes Yes and Genesis
will not automatically like SB/TFK, that is obvious. But there is a
good chance that he will like them, if he doesn't mind the AOR
influences. |
See, now if more people could just say that, I
would have absolutely nothing to argue about. But this is never ever how they are mentioned or discussed, except when I come in and point out the obvious nakenedess of the emperors.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21121
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:49 |
You're a hopeless case.
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Teaflax
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1225
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Posted: June 26 2006 at 13:26 |
Ah, yes. I love music that isn't dumbed-down. Just the right kind of hopeless, if you ask me.
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