Zeuhl Open Discussion |
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2005 Location: Soundgarden Status: Offline Points: 18292 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 02:45 | |
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde
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eugene
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 30 2005 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 04:37 | |
No, Zeuhl is weird but good
Avant is also good but different
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carefulwiththataxe
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 14:38 | |
I just heard Magma's "Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh." This is some very interesting stuff, and I do like it. It's so different though, that I can't really compare it to other prog. I truly understand the Wagner references. What I see at this point is that I will probably listen to it the same way as I do Opera. It's more like sitting down to watch a movie, rather than just "putting on" some music.
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Joren
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 07 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
Posted: May 25 2006 at 16:54 | |
You like krautrock, and that's very avant-garde as well. Edited by Joren - May 25 2006 at 16:55 |
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 05 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
Posted: June 09 2006 at 18:59 | |
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love). |
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MusicForSpeedin
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 613 |
Posted: June 09 2006 at 19:41 | |
Ruins are amazing
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Explorer-eighth
Forum Newbie Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Great Britain Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: June 09 2006 at 19:57 | |
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"?
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only.
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade".
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut.
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The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 05 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
Posted: June 09 2006 at 21:02 | |
Yeah I have Unives Zero's album 1313 I'll investigate them and Art Zoyd in depth, but you reckon Eskaton's 4 visions is good, i'll explore them some more
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Explorer-eighth
Forum Newbie Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Great Britain Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: June 11 2006 at 22:15 | |
I have recently bought Udu Wudu by Magma and it doesn't appeal to me.
There is one short track which stands out amongst the rest. It is the third track called "Troller Tanz (ghost dance)". It has more melody and variety, but what annoys me is when we get to the end of the track, there is a great melody with the piano taking the lead part, but then it fades away quickly and finishes when there is so much lost potential and much that could have been made of it.
The title track includes some brass instruments which help to make it sound more interesting, but all the other short tracks are too repetitive.
De Futura starts off really well (that is the first 8 minutes of the track). After that it just goes on and on and on with repetition.
In the mid 70s, Magma seem to lose their distinctive Orff; Stravinsky; jazz; Soft Machine influences and their ethnic influences become much stronger, unfortunately.
I still love 1001 degrees centigrades; Magma; In edits and Kohntarkosz.
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The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
Posted: June 13 2006 at 05:06 | |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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progressive
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 366 |
Posted: June 13 2006 at 05:25 | |
Many aren't appeald by Magma's Üdü Wüdü, but why, why, why, why, why, o-why?
Tell me. I like it (partly, but in a hard way - partly very much). Too avantgarde? No. Not "avantgarde". And why not to be avantgarde? Could it be avantgarde if everyone liked it - no. Magma (not all, but most of it), Ruins (not all the punk parts), and Dün are amazing, and other zeuhl. It's very progressive, it's emotional, it's crazy. Oh, the drums, and what bass lines, and the high female vocals with low (and high:)) male growling, and the imaginated world (not the main idea), and the symphonism, heavier than anything and happy parts, aah. Though, Happy Family hasn't mesmerized me.
Is zeuhl too heavy (I mean - too dynamic and raging.) or too oddly and funnily and in a gay way beautiful, almost pretentious? Maybe, those styles are in their zenith in zeuhl maybe. But there's also irony in zeuhl and you must learn to tolerate zeuhl style - maybe by thinking all the chances zeuhl is offering. It's so different and broadens your world, and also arouses different feelings and thoughts. Think zeuhl for example music in head of some people who are arguing, or being some neurotic persons world - like krautrock - routined or something. Or just think it as being odd dance - or "celestial". Or.. But, those things are represented in some other genres too - so, is zeuhl too progressive? And it's not Rock-in-Opposition /Avant-prog (RIO de festival:)), or yes it is - like krautrock maybe, but they are clearer and maybe more considered, stucked. Although i think Frank Zappa is more really let's say for example RIO :), but The Residents is avantgarde, when avantgarde is consireded as a genre which has more got stuck with its own things that clearly belongs to that genre (against the idea "avantgarde") - for example the cirkus themes and low electronic vocals... So it would be nice to separate old classical avantgarde from the idea of "avantgarde", although of course it has been avantgarde, and also now being - but is progressive rock always avantgarde in some way.. ok, i'm done. Edited by progressive - June 13 2006 at 06:40 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
Posted: June 13 2006 at 09:49 | |
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
Musique Noise: not bad but nothing worth writing home aboit either.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 04:14 | |
First review of mine of Art Zoyd: the debut (original recording not the re-recorded version of 81)
Art Zoyd – Le Jour Ou Brûleront Les Cités (76) Little did Art Zoyd know that one day this album would become prophetic thirty years later. Hailing from, a small industrial (mining and steel) city in Northern France a stone’s throw from Belgium (Maubeuge is where one of my great-grandfather was born), no doubt these guys lived in those suburbs that they predicted one day from a revolt would burn. One of the most intriguing things is how these future musicians got into such an awesome and experimental avant-garde group as Art Zoyd. Apart from the fact that a lot of Northern France’s industrial cities were voting communist, one of the few positive things that communism ever brought was to make higher culture accessible to everyone including the poor (ESPECIALLY the poor), and this IMHO, might just be their (AZ) case. As was the case for Area, Henry Cow and other ultra avant-garde, Art Zoyd was resolutely left wing, much like all of the RIO-chart signatory groups (of which AZ were not original members but part of the second wave) and have a close link to Belgium’s Univers Zero, their career throughout. I am writing the preface of this review under a hypothetical probability strictly knowing what the album has to offer in terms of story through the titles of their works (no lyrics since the music is totally instrumental except for wordless vocals), but there seems to be a solid thread or story, even pressing me to declare this album conceptual. The music, clearly inspired from Bartok, Stravinsky, and Henry Cow or Zappa’s “serious music” is screaming, yelling, howling its madness of the riots between Special Brigades and the activists wearing Masks into Masquerade (Simulacre is a sham or an pretentious enactment). This first side is simply stunning and the violence and tension ever present even if there is absolutely no rock element in their music (bar a short passage in Fourmis), but it fits their theme immaculately well. The second side is an auto-criticism of those suburbs not yet in revolt: two tracks (the third one, Simulacre, still belonging to the first-side theme) depicting the never-ending suffering with an elusive hope of a brighter future (the revolt coming once this hope disappears). Fourmis (ants) is self-explanatory of their plight (with a passage compared to Canada Brass’ Flight Of The Bumblebee), while Carnival (a very important theme even in atheist circles) is one of those breaks were they are allowed to vent off their frustrations by deriding the ones dominating them. As you might expect, the music loses some of its solemnity in this last track to adopt a (relatively) more festive tone. Clearly the works of violinist Gerard Hourbette, greatly helped by Zabotzieff (of Polish descent like many miners fleeing Dense, impenetrable or not easily accessible, this album (as most of AZ’s works) does not surrender easily to one’s taste buds. As a matter of fact, this sometimes obtuse (because of its difficult nature) is not easily recommendable unless you are a confirmed fan of this RIO-Zeuhl music current. Hence the four star rating. |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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eugene
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 30 2005 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 06:16 | |
What album(s) you've got in mind??
I love their Tep Zepi, but not very much impressed by Zed (only two albums I've heard)
"Derivative" - ? - from who ???
And sometimes I doubt this band is Zeuhl....
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carefulwiththataxe
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eugene
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 30 2005 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 2703 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 06:18 | |
Don't think Art Zoyd got anything to do with Zeuhl
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I wonder why my previous post appeared all in small print ????
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carefulwiththataxe
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20239 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 07:33 | |
Runaway Totem is definitely derivative of Magma. I have Zed at home and heard Tep Zepi and rented from the library the last album which is full of sampled instruments
As for Art Zoyd, their classic music sound (I speak of their 70's and early 80's albums) is very similar to Univers Zero, which gives a definite RIO genre, but if you listen closelu to AZ and UZ, and compare to Magma, you will see the obvious influences Edited by Sean Trane - June 14 2006 at 07:35 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 05 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:30 | |
I cna't find any online stores that deal with Eskatons 4 Visions or Magma's Christian Vander Wurdah Itah are those two CDs out of print or something?
I will look up Zao and Ruins and Happy Family ( although I do think most newer prog is a step down and tends to indulge too much in the past than look to the future (except Radiohead and Mars Volta and a few others)).
I'll look out for Art Zoyd, and I'll get UV's Ceux de Dehores and Heresie.
I got Kohntarkosz yesterday I love it for me it is the epitome of what Zehuel is, i've listened to it a dozen times already I prefer it to MDK, I think it is Magma's finest so far (I've got Udu Wudu and Attahk as well), I think Kohntarkosz is where UV got their sound from(well from 1313 anyway thats all I've heard) it's dark and energetic yet joyful as well. 5/5
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7003 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:52 | |
Bug
Edited by Syzygy - June 14 2006 at 08:56 |
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7003 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 08:56 | |
Art Zoyd toured with Magma and some musicians have played with both bands. Their albums up to Phase IV have a strong Zeuhl influence, although this is less noticeable on more recent releases. They're considered Zeuhl on the Ork Alarm website, as are Univers Zero.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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progreviews
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 21 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 271 |
Posted: June 14 2006 at 15:59 | |
Wayside Music has Wurdah Itah in stock for $16. Highly recommended, dependable vendor that I've been using for years. Unfortunately, the CD issue of 4 Visions is on the Swedish Ad Perpetuam Memoriam label, which is long-defunct and all their releases are long out of print. There have been some rumors that Soleil Zeuhl might eventually obtain the rights to it and reissue it again, but I'm not holding my breath. |
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