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thellama73 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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 Posted: June 09 2006 at 20:24 |
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I don't think that was a racist statement. I live in the United States
and I have worked alongside a number of immigrants who make no effort
whatsoever to speak English. I never said that none of them try, but I
know from experience that some of them don't. The ones I worked with
were good, hard working people and I had nothing against them
personally. In fact, I rather liked them. But I think it's wrong not to
try to conform, at least a little bit, with the culture in which you
have chosen to live.
Edited by thellama73 - June 09 2006 at 20:25
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video vertigo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1930
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 17:26 |
 chamberry wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
maani wrote:
I think it is pretty arrogant to expect people in other countries to be able to speak English to us when we are there. |
What I think is arrogant is for someone to move into a country, work there, expect to spend their entire life there, and never make any attempt to learn the native language. I have never known an American who has done that (although I'm not saying there aren't any.) Vacationing is one thing, but permanent residents are another matter entirely.
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And I also never known a person who refusses to learn the native language in with they are living. Yes there are some who don't but you are generalising there when you said "and never attempt to learn the native language." I'll bet at least 95% of those immigrants are trying hard to learn it and just because the other 5% are having trouble or don't want to learn english this things happen?
One more step into racism...
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Logos wrote:
For Americans it's all about them, they're the best people in the world and other nationalities are inferior.
Heck, here in Finland everyone has to learn at least English and Swedish. Many people study other languages as well. In the 21st century the world is smaller than ever, cultures are nearer to each other. In order to be able to communicate and co-operate with people from other countries and cultures you need to speak other languages as well! And also have some basic knowledge about other cultures, which many people don't have for sure..
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in the US we also study foreign languages, its a requirment in high school, and nowadays its starting earlier than that. What sucks is that some immigrants come in to the country and expect everyone else to speak their language and attempt to live here without learning any english, it happens all the time. Maybe not the majority but definitely more than 5% because its very common.
Edited by video vertigo - June 10 2006 at 19:59
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"The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 17:54 |
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Oooh boy! Getting a bit steamy here! Easy VV on the derogatory labels. We have some Hispanics here in the forum. While I agree on most of the sentments about learning English here, let's play nice, ok?
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 17:58 |
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i think that this is an intensely arrogant and quite offensive thing to do. People like that encourage racial hatred and ghettoisation of cultures.
All in all this guy seems like an all American biggoted fool of the first degree.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:13 |
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Personally I don't believe in racism. Now let me explain what I mean by this. To me, there is only the human race, nothing more and nothing less.
If you feel someone of a different culture is of a different race, you're a racist. If you feel someone of a different nationality is of a different race, you're a racist. If you feel someone of a different LANGUAGE is of a different race, you're a racist. And on and on, skin color, religion, social attire whatever, the whole works.
My point is, it is this constant subdividing and splintering of the HUMAN RACE that creates racism.
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:13 |
Psychedelia wrote:
i think that this is an intensely arrogant and quite offensive thing to do. People like that encourage racial hatred and ghettoisation of cultures.
All in all this guy seems like an all American biggoted fool of the first degree.
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I can not agree with that. It is not arrogant or hateful to request or require the people moving to the United States of AMERICA to speak English. And concerning other countries on the North or South American continent that think they are American. Well, they are not. They are Colombian, Brazilian, Canadian, Mexican, etc. The United States of America is the only county on the North or South American continent with the word America in the official name of the country. So, we call ourselves American. And d*nm proud of it. Is that so wrong?
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:16 |
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yes. If it leads to the alienation of other minorities within the same country.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:26 |
Psychedelia wrote:
yes. If it leads to the alienation of other minorities within the same country.
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How so?
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:31 |
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well this is an example right here. He rides around places where the majority of people are going to be immigrants saiying that they should all speak English and has effectively tried to come up with a way not to serve immigrants. Which thus alienates that minority.
This would then just lead to added racial tension which could only increase.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:35 |
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I think that a lot of immigrants to the U.S. are extremely proud of the fact that they are citizens of the U.S. They can also be proud of the heritage whether it be from Mexico or Germany or wherever.
People moving to any country around the world ought to try and "fit in" and become part of that country. That would include learing the national language IMO.
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:37 |
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i agree with that i just don't think people like this are making things a lot worse.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:38 |
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Psychedelia quote:
"People like that encourage RACIAL hatred and ghettoisation of cultures."
Sorry to do this to you Psych, but just using that word racial makes you a racist. Read my previous post. The proper word would be prejudice. The words racism, racial and racist have been flaunted about over the past 30 years or so just to subdivide the human race even more. People just whip them out at the drop of a hat because it has a more harsher impact when it really just causes more division.
The way I look at it, there isn't a single homo sapien on the planet that's of a different race than me.
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:45 |
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i can see what your saying but really isn't this just a bit penickity? its just a more specific prejudice. If people didn't already know what you were talking about the word prejudice wouldn't make enough sense.
Plus to label someone as a racist for using a term commonly used without stigmatism seems very harsh. This term should be reserved for people who are actually making relations between different races (what else can i say here?) more difficult.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:46 |
Psychedelia wrote:
i agree with that i just don't think people like this are making things a lot worse.
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That may be so. But I still can't fault the guy. He is proud of who he is, where he comes from and where he lives now. Nothing wrong with that. You could argue that if more people were like him, others coming here might get the idea - "Hey these guys (Americans) are serious here. Maybe I ought to try and learn to speak their language, especially if I plan on staying." The problem is is that so many people have come here illegally and they are not necessarily trying to fit in. They work and send money home. If they get caught, no loss. They just try and come back again.
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:53 |
Psychedelia wrote:
i can see what your saying but really isn't this just a bit penickity? its just a more specific prejudice. If people didn't already know what you were talking about the word prejudice wouldn't make enough sense. Plus to label someone as a racist for using a term commonly used without stigmatism seems very harsh. This term should be reserved for people who are actually making relations between different races (what else can i say here?) more difficult.
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Actually Psych, I wasn't really going after your attitude and outlook, just your choice of words to make a point. We have become brainwashed into using these particular words that are more dividing than we think. And again, instead of races, you should be saying different cultures or nationalities.
Edited by marktheshark - June 10 2006 at 18:56
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:55 |
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i can see your point but in practice i think its more likely to lead to a more segregated USA with a less inclusive poliicy towards immigration.
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 18:59 |
Psychedelia wrote:
i can see your point but in practice i think its more likely to lead to a more segregated USA with a less inclusive poliicy towards immigration.
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We have got a bad taste in our mouth with regard to immigration - mainly because of all the illegals here. The U.S. has always been about immigrants. For good or bad. My ancestors were immigrants. If our immigration policy was under control, I don't think we would be having the problems that we now face.
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:00 |
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And I think folks around here would be more open to immigration, as long as it is controlled.
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Psychedelia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 238
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:05 |
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having a more controlled immigration system does seem the way forward. I also think that it would be wise to help the immigrants adapt to American life so that these things dont happen so much
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Another emotional suicide, overdosed on sentiment and pride
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: June 10 2006 at 19:07 |
Psychedelia wrote:
having a more controlled immigration system does seem the way forward. I also think that it would be wise to help the immigrants adapt to American life so that these things dont happen so much
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Agreed. The key word there is controlled.
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