What is so wrong with Prog metal

Ghost Rider wrote: micky wrote: a big thumbs down to prog metal from Micky.... for the simple fact... I don't like the sound of it.... in general it is overproduced with crappy keyboards (show me a Hammond organ anyday, I love the old vintage keyboards.. that is a large part of the prog sound).. .the guitars are completely overdone with effects... and so on. Plus I get the sense that all the emphasis on the technical nature of the music... and somehow writing a great song got lost along the way.   I'm a big fan of the old analog sound.. digital isn't always better.   I don't waste time here  slammiing it, we all like what we like, ....   In short that's why I couldn't get into it... and I like metal.. but when in the mood.. I pull out some old Ozzy or Judas Priest.  If I want to bang my head silly.. I'll take the classic metal stuff.   Symph Prog specialists should stick together, therefore I endorse everything you said . I'm not a big Prog-Metal expert, but what I've heard so far hasn't impressed me too much - with some notable exceptions. For instance, I'd like to explore Tool's output, which intrigued me much more than anything I've heard by DT so far. I also love Queensryche, which I got to know right after the release of their "Queen of the Reich" EP. That said, like my partner in crime Micky, I'd rather listen to classic metal, or even bands like Metallica or Megadeth (I was listening to "Rust in Peace" yesterday, and it smokes!) - and I can't wait to see Maiden again in December. It's not the heaviness of the sound that puts me off, rather the pointless noodling and (often) poor songwriting.

If only people would listen to Heaven's Cry ... every thread that I start about them quickly dies away. Look them up on my homepage if you're interested, there are two complete songs available on the homepage of their label (DVS).

blue powder 777 wrote: After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound.

Which is why I have to wonder why so much of what passes for Prog Metal is so very much like "regular" music. It seems counter-productive.

I personally don't think much of prog metal, with the odd exception perhaps. I like it hard and fast at times, but there is an overdose of that in prog metal, and I quickly get bored of it. Another reason, and perhaps the most important one, is that despite all its hardness and fastness the music sounds way too "clean" for me; it is not really "dirty" (at least not what I have heard of prog metal). It may have to do with modern production methods (especially the sound of the bass), but that's why I personally stick to "Sea Shanties" by High Tide or the likes if I want it hard and fast.

Edited by BaldFriede - June 03 2006 at 03:50

I think people are forgetting that music is entirely based upon taste, a very important point especially in a genre as diverse as prog. In fact, progressive music is not a style of music rather an approach to music even if there are particular sounds we define as "prog." Prog metal is simply another evolution of prog, for better or worse, that stands as a testament to the power of progressive music. There is certainly something for everyone. Prog metal may be your cup of tea, and maybe it isn't. But don't attack the merit of a type of music simply because you don't like it. As purists we all fall into the trap of degrading another style of music that does not fit our particular tastes. After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound. Does that mean that music on the radio is bad? Absolutely not. If it were such "bad" music it would not have such a large audience. I personally don't care for pop music, but that is my personal taste. Prog metal can come off as to aggressive and technically oriented to some "prog-snobs" and that's okay. Some people like the sound, others don't. And attacking Dream Theater for being too technical? One could pose the same argument for the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Like the sound or hate it, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that we respect each others musical tastes even if it does not conform with our idea of "prog" or "good music". All of these groups are here because enough people consider them progressive but more importantly people like them. We could give 100 different definitions of prog, all correct, but each an individual definition within the broad scope. All I am saying is respect the music and the opinions of others. That said, you don't have to like it.

    I don't bash it, but as of yet, I still don't find it appealing. There is some metal I do like, but most of it is the "classic" type (Black Sabbath). I just don't like the new style of metal. It's the constant gutteral thrumming in the lower registers that really puts me off. It also seems as if the vocalists are just trying to sound metal, rather than truly being emotive. On the advice of a friend, I tried Tool again. I still can't make it through an entire song.

The problem for me with Prog Metal is that no matter how prog it is, it's still metal; and while I sometimes like a metal edge (like Porcupine Tree), or perhaps more than just an edge, full-fledged metal is too loud for me. I think that may be the case for many people here, although there are lots of prog-metal fans.

It's predictable that in a Progressive Rock web site like ProgArchives, most of the people like the 70's bands, because they're classics and the ones that started all of this ...

imoeng wrote: Xenoxen wrote: I love metal. But my veiw is there's no such thing as prog metal. Metal is Metal, Prog Is Prog.   so what about progressive rock? what about pop rock? its just 2 elements become 1... ohh and look the subgenres on the main page,, u can find lots of "no such thing ness"

Just ignore him, he's one of those close minded snobs stuck in a time period. Let 'em rot there.

thetick, I agree with you completely. If you're a metalhead and you want to listen to more ambitious, melodic, and artsy music, then prog metal is for you. If the other "prog-snobs" can't appreciate it, then that's their loss.

I've been thinking... it seems like there's several reasons for people's gravitation towards and repulsion from prog-metal. One probably has to do with age: those of us who lived our formative years in the 90's or 00's are more exposed to a harder, more visceral sound then those who grew up before. Therefore we could be more likely to attain an appreciation of metal due to societal reasons.

But the second reason is more interesting to note intellectually: I would be willing to posit a hypothesis that some people like metal because of the tendencies of their personalilty. For example, the reason I find myself attracted to metal (especially metal with extended shredfest solos—exactly the kind of material people on this site like to label "w**kery") is that it is the only music which can match the intensity going on in my own mind. Over the course of the day, I find my thoughts relentlessly shifting from subject to subject, perhaps driven by my own introversion and anxiety. But when I'm listening to prog-metal, for instance, DT, my mind doesn't drift! I find myself completely engrossed by the twists and turns of the music. And thus, what some call "lack of subtlety", I call "exhilarating"!!! How can a DT shredfest be devoid of emotion? It is full of emotion, as it matches the velocity of the racing thoughts and feelings going on in my mind. So for me it would be the exact opposite of what so many describe: music often bores me because it doesn't have enough moments of mania.

Unfortunately it seems that many people don't understand this sentiment because it's not normally featured in their personality. So many progheads will bash prog metal

...there should be a ProgArchives spin off website completely devoted to prog metal. Then everyone would be happy...

Personally, I have no quarrel with prog metal. Tool and Opeth are sonically interesting AND have singers with great voices. Dream Theater ... well, I can stand them, when James LaBrie isn't over-emoting every poorly-written syllable. However, lots of prog-metal has too much "metal" and too little "prog". Not most prog metal, but a significant amount. Occasionally, you could accuse Dream Theater of that - they put a metal song in 13/8 time or whatever, and then just start soloing away.

However, in the end, it is often difficult for classic-prog lovers to fall for anything as raucous as metal. Growing up in the nineties, as many of us have, we were exposed to very agressive music from a young age, and so have grown tolerant to it (or have rejected it entirely). It's not so easy for those who grew up hearing synth-pop, or Genesis. Some manage to force themselves into the genre, and find they like it, others conclude that they don't.

Finally, there's the nature of prog metal. As a genre, prog metal is much, MUCH more rhythmically oriented than ordinary prog rock. The volume of the drums, the distortion of the guitar sound, metal has always been a drummer's genre, at heart. Some people just aren't interested in rhythm at all, and simply want melody. Purer melodies are found in regular non-metallic prog, so that's where they head. Fair enough.

Of course, all of these catagories have exceptions, but, in the majority of prog-metal songs, some, if not all of them apply.