Blacksword wrote: Ivan: Whats wrong with burning someones flag in protest/anger? If I saw someone burning the Union Jack I wouldn't give a sh!t to be frank. In fact, I'd understand their inclination to do so. You may hate hippies, I hate jingoism and nationalistic flag waving. It's an alternative to having an open mind and seeing the 'big picture' Back on topic. Nights in White Satin is, as you say, only a soft ballad, but I think it has a beautiful feel to it. The orchestra and the Mellotron really bring it to life. Haywards voice is perfect is ever, and when you consider it was recorded in 1967, you have to concede that little else sounded like it at the time, and the production was at least a decade ahead of anything else. The album 'Days of Future Passed..' is brought to a dramatic and emotional conclusion by this song. The overall package may sound a little naieve these days, but then so does the Genesis debut. Thats the appeal of all these artists and the music they made early on in their careers.. IMO..

I don't hate hippies, my uncle (My father's brother was a hippie, still lives in a farm has some of animals that he doesn't eat, only vegetables which by the way are not suspicious since at least 20 years ago (He's the only person in my family who knows about gifts , always music and always good) but I don't agree with that silly phillosophy of criticizing everything just becaise it's part of the stablishment while using all your free time to be high instead of using the democratic methods to change the status quo if you disagree.

There are wrong things, but a civilized society needs institutions.

BTW: Killing any countries flag is a lack of respect, I did it, I burned the USSR flag in the door of their Embassy during a protest, and now I think it was wrong.

And honestly I don't believe Keith did it because of a personal belief, he did it because it was profitable and part of the show. I sincerely believe politics must be kept away from music, at lñeast participation in politics, you can express your ideas, but to preach or burn flags is out of the question.

When you burn a flag you don't attack the Government, you insult a whole country and people who have nothing to do with the problem you think this Government causes.

Iván

bluetailfly wrote:   Now as to the matter of "Nights in White Satin" and it being "only a soft ballad" my god, what an absurd reductive view of that song and the context in which it is performed. "Days of Future Passed" is a phenomenal concept Lp and "Nights" is the jaw-dropping conclusion to it. You can't separte the melody from the production and the intricate context in which the song is placed. To do so is irresponisible criticism. Sort of like flag burning...

Yes you can separate it, The Moody Blues did it repeatedly.

Go and tell The Moody Blues they are irresponsable for separating this SONGS from the intrincate (????) context of Days of Future Passed and War of the Worlds:

THE MOODY BLUES The Best Of Moody Blues 1997 Boxset / Compilation Title information (Edit) | Reviews | Buy Music Track listing 1. Go Now (3:12) 2. Tuesday Afternoon (Forever Afternoon) (4:14) 3. Nights In White Satin (4:27) 4. Ride My See-Saw (3:45) 5. Voices In The Sky (3:32) 6. Question (5:46) 7. The Story In Your Eyes (3:06) 8. Isn't Life Strange (6:07) 9. I'm Just A Singer (In A Rock And Roll Band)(4:18) 10. Blue Guitar (3:40) 11. Steppin' In A Slide Zone (5:31) 12. Forever Autumn (4:33) 13. The Voice (5:17) 14. Gemini Dream (4:06) 15. Blue World (5:15) 16. Your Wildest Dreams (4:53) 17. I Know You're Out There Somewhere (6:37) Total Time: 78:22 Line-up - Justin Hayward / guitars, vocals - John Lodge / bass guitar, vocals - Ray Thomas / harmonica, flute, vocals - Graeme Edge / drums, percussion - Mike Pinder / keyboards on tracks 1-9 and track 11 - Patrick Moraz / keyboards on tracks 13-17 - Denny Laine / guitar and vocals on track 1 - Clint Warwick / bass guitar and vocals on track 1 3.00 (Warning: only 1 rating)

In this album not only Nights in White Satin is out of Days of Future Passed Context (Tuesday Afternoon is in the same case), but also recreated as a top hit single without any orchestral addition.

They did the same with Forever Autumn from The War of the Worlds. Their music is so ambiguous that taken out from their natural comntext can be used as POP tracks.

Blame them, not me for changing a suposedly masterpiece in a hit single pop ballad.

Iván

bluetailfly wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Blacksword wrote: Ivan: Whats wrong with burning someones flag in protest/anger? If I saw someone burning the Union Jack I wouldn't give a sh!t to be frank. In fact, I'd understand their inclination to do so. You may hate hippies, I hate jingoism and nationalistic flag waving. It's an alternative to having an open mind and seeing the 'big picture' Back on topic. Nights in White Satin is, as you say, only a soft ballad, but I think it has a beautiful feel to it. The orchestra and the Mellotron really bring it to life. Haywards voice is perfect is ever, and when you consider it was recorded in 1967, you have to concede that little else sounded like it at the time, and the production was at least a decade ahead of anything else. The album 'Days of Future Passed..' is brought to a dramatic and emotional conclusion by this song. The overall package may sound a little naieve these days, but then so does the Genesis debut. Thats the appeal of all these artists and the music they made early on in their careers.. IMO.. I don't hate hippies, my uncle (My father's brother was a hippie, still lives in a farm has some of animals that he doesn't eat, only vegetables which by the way are not suspicious since at least 20 years ago (He's the only person in my family who knows about gifts , always music and always good) but I don't agree with that silly phillosophy of criticizing everything just becaise it's part of the stablishment while using all your free time to be high instead of using the democratic methods to change the status quo if you disagree. There are wrong things, but a civilized society needs institutions. BTW: Killing any countries flag is a lack of respect, I did it, I burned the USSR flag in the door of their Embassy during a protest, and now I think it was wrong. And honestly I don't believe Keith did it because of a personal belief, he did it because it was profitable and part of the show. I sincerely believe politics must be kept away from music, at lñeast participation in politics, you can express your ideas, but to preach or burn flags is out of the question. When you burn a flag you don't attack the Government, you insult a whole country and people who have nothing to do with the problem you think this Government causes. Iván I think the best way to deal with flag burning is to ignore the flag burners. Let them have their moment of protest and then be done with it. Now as to the matter of "Nights in White Satin" and it being "only a soft ballad" my god, what an absurd reductive view of that song and the context in which it is performed. "Days of Future Passed" is a phenomenal concept Lp and "Nights" is the jaw-dropping conclusion to it. You can't separte the melody from the production and the intricate context in which the song is placed. To do so is irresponisible criticism. Sort of like flag burning...

Exactly!

ivan_2068 wrote: [ bluetailfly wrote: Hi Ivan, Forgive my saying so, but that is a rather weak argument, and if I was a juror, I would think, this attorney is trying to skew the real issue at hand here. Of course bands (or more accurately, band management) will later put out greatest hits, but we are talking about "Days of Future Past" as a work of art. As a concept unto itself. That is what I'm referring to. All excellent pieces of music start out as simple melodies; it's what the artist does with it that needs to be considered as well. And "Days of Future Past" is a psychedelic mindtrip (and more---I'm in a hurry here). More later. Well, we were talking in two different languages and none of us noticesd it . I referred specificly to Nights in White Satin. Now about Days of Future Passed, I also believe it's a bit dissapointing, the orchestra doesn't play the music of the songs or enhace the instruments and melody, in most cases the orchestra only plays an artificial introduction and an ending that have absolutely no relation with the central piece of music. The idea was brilliant, but The Moody Blues weren't able to do it succesfully. Take the artificial orchestration and you got a lot of poppy tracks that can be easily played in any compilation (Nights in Wgite Satin is present in every Moody Blues compilation, so don't blame the management, it was Justin's idea.  IMO until "Long Distance Voyager" with Moraz, they never were remotely close to Prog'. But, it's only my opinion and may be wrong. Iván

Ivan and others,

I have am in the middle of a serious Moody Blues appreciation phase and have listened to the first five of their lps (excluding that "first" first one, if you know what I mean)---Nights thru Question of Balance. And I have to tell you, these albums blow me away and not just because they are melodic, catchy sounding folk rock. It's much more than that.

I have never known a rock band that has worked so carefully and successfully with slow tempos. They are masters at it. It really sets their work apart. It's really noticeable on the lps "Lost Chord" and "Threshold."

Also, they successfully work in the wind instruments like few other bands I know. Furthermore, they really worked at getting a unique sounding electric guitar sound (or distorted acoustic). It's it's a very crafted sound.

And then there is the matter of the themes that unite each lp. These guys really worked at this, crafted their work, thought about its presentation. Much more than a lot of late sixties prog and proto-prog bands did (or were able to do). Each album is a whole. The musical journey is blend of ebb and flow as the styles of music change. But you can tell the effect was due to how they put together the lp.

The more I listen to the work of the Moody Blues, the more I am profoundly impressed by it. I can't wait to here "Children's Children" and "Seventh Soujourn."

skyhawk wrote: Ehhh... I prefer In Held Twas I.

I prefere "In Held Twas In I" too, but this poll concerned the first three progressive songs by the first three progressive bands!!!

Good signature, BTW

Blacksword wrote: bluetailfly wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: [ bluetailfly wrote: Hi Ivan, Forgive my saying so, but that is a rather weak argument, and if I was a juror, I would think, this attorney is trying to skew the real issue at hand here. Of course bands (or more accurately, band management) will later put out greatest hits, but we are talking about "Days of Future Past" as a work of art. As a concept unto itself. That is what I'm referring to. All excellent pieces of music start out as simple melodies; it's what the artist does with it that needs to be considered as well. And "Days of Future Past" is a psychedelic mindtrip (and more---I'm in a hurry here). More later. Well, we were talking in two different languages and none of us noticesd it . I referred specificly to Nights in White Satin. Now about Days of Future Passed, I also believe it's a bit dissapointing, the orchestra doesn't play the music of the songs or enhace the instruments and melody, in most cases the orchestra only plays an artificial introduction and an ending that have absolutely no relation with the central piece of music. The idea was brilliant, but The Moody Blues weren't able to do it succesfully. Take the artificial orchestration and you got a lot of poppy tracks that can be easily played in any compilation (Nights in Wgite Satin is present in every Moody Blues compilation, so don't blame the management, it was Justin's idea.  IMO until "Long Distance Voyager" with Moraz, they never were remotely close to Prog'. But, it's only my opinion and may be wrong. Iván Ivan and others, I have am in the middle of a serious Moody Blues appreciation phase and have listened to the first five of their lps (excluding that "first" first one, if you know what I mean)---Nights thru Question of Balance. And I have to tell you, these albums blow me away and not just because they are melodic, catchy sounding folk rock. It's much more than that. I have never known a rock band that has worked so carefully and successfully with slow tempos. They are masters at it. It really sets their work apart. It's really noticeable on the lps "Lost Chord" and "Threshold." Also, they successfully work in the wind instruments like few other bands I know. Furthermore, they really worked at getting a unique sounding electric guitar sound (or distorted acoustic). It's it's a very crafted sound. And then there is the matter of the themes that unite each lp. These guys really worked at this, crafted their work, thought about its presentation. Much more than a lot of late sixties prog and proto-prog bands did (or were able to do). Each album is a whole. The musical journey is blend of ebb and flow as the styles of music change. But you can tell the effect was due to how they put together the lp. The more I listen to the work of the Moody Blues, the more I am profoundly impressed by it. I can't wait to here "Children's Children" and "Seventh Soujourn."   I bought Seventh Sojourn the other week. I love it, it's darker than otjher stuff I've heard from them. I've yet to hear 'Childrens, childrens...' and 'Every good boy deserves favour' but they are next on my list. I love the Moodies blend of melancholy and hope. I cant believe I overlooked them for so many years. Enjoy your next MB purchase..

Thanks, I totally agree with you on that. In fact, I used to sort of disparage them in my ignorance!

btw/ In my last post I made a mistake. I haven't heard "Every Good Boy" or "Seventh Soujourn." I have heard "Children's Children" and am very much impressed by it. Especially by how the theme of the album (space travel) inspired the group to compose the various types of songs on the lp. Another strong work from them.

I voted for America for one simple reason: I like it more than the other two!

It does not bother me that it is a cover of a song from West Side Story - I still think it's a really enjoyable listen. I like Emerson's earthy Hammond and the way THE NICE rocked it up. Of course it helps that the original is an excellent, very accessible piece of music.

In my teens and twenties I found Nights In White Satin unbearable - it was just sentimental pap as far as I was concerned. I can just about listen to it these days, but don't find it anything special. A Whiter Shade Of Pale is, in my opinion, a better composition, and it's undoubtedly a classic. I also like it, but it doesn't thrill me like America does.