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Sacred 22 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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 Posted: June 01 2006 at 01:42 |
U.S. Moving Toward Totalitarianism?
I am afraid that it is indeed. The first clue for many was the introduction of the Patriot Act. Everyone, do your homework and explore the internet for answers before the internet is taken from us and the answers come from on "high"
None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsely believe themselves to be free. -- Goethe
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 04:36 |
 Ghandi 2 wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
You know that the people saying that guns do not kill people , but people are killing people are bloody industry puppets. Complete and total BS! |
A gun can't get up and shoot someone; it is a tool, and like all tools it can be used well and used poorly. A tool making it possible to kill without realizing you're taking a life away, since you are doing from a distance
If that had been a gun you wouldn't have resisted; therefore, your point is moot. And the gun ban had not yet been enacted at that point, so it's not really relevant to the discussion of a gun ban. >> this happened in Canada at the turn of the 70's (26 years ago) and the gun situation was/is much diferent than in the US>> most of the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) was still unarmed by then (This is also why the British police manage miracles) , but still the RCMP is one of the most efficient police in the world >> the red coats were only for tourist
Now you're just making **** up. >> riiiight!!!!
My dad keeps his guns in a safe, and any intelligent gun owner does also. >> intelligent (or responsible) and gun owner are impossible in the same sentence!!!
The non intelligent gun owners are usually the criminals anyway, who would probably find a way to get a gun anyway (just like drugs are illegal, but if you're persistent they really are not all that hard to get) >> you are making it easy for me in this debate >> easily available guns create potential crime situation >> you admit it yourself
Again, you are making debate difficult >> most guns in the US are NOT kept in safes, but DISPLAYED (collection or hunting trophys, gun clubs and extremist militias). Some fathers do keep guns in safes, but in case of an emergency, running to the dad office or in the bedroom, calmly making your safe combination (while your family is in danger and realizing that if you miss the combination, you have to start all over >> another half-minute lost at least) , pulling the gun out, load it, then run out and use it, if by that time , you have not been shot by the agressors!!
C'm on man, only responsible fools keep their guns in a safe!! If you own a gun, you want it handy when you need it
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 13:26 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Again, you are making debate difficult >> most guns in the US are NOT kept in safes, but DISPLAYED (collection or hunting trophys, gun clubs and extremist militias). Some fathers do keep guns in safes, but in case of an emergency, running to the dad office or in the bedroom, calmly making your safe combination (while your family is in danger and realizing that if you miss the combination, you have to start all over >> another half-minute lost at least) , pulling the gun out, load it, then run out and use it, if by that time , you have not been shot by the agressors!!
C'm on man, only responsible fools keep their guns in a safe!! If you own a gun, you want it handy when you need it
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My great uncle Johnny Rocco was a Chicago cop. He had guns ALL OVER his house in drawers. He was always afraid someone he busted was going to be paroled and they would come back and wreak havoc on him. Shortly before he died he told my uncle John "I want you to take every gun in my house and give them to my dad when I die." "Oh and John, if you find a gun in my house assume it's loaded, there isn't any point to keeping a gun locked up in a safe with no bulltets. You're supposed to have a gun to use it when you need. You don't plan to have a criminal walk into your house."
So when Rocco died, my uncle took all the guns to his dad who kept two and unloaded the rest and buried them in the backyard.
And about guns in display cases, my uncle David has tons of guns, but only for display purposes, and only a few are loaded.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 13:40 |
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How did this turn into a thread abut gun laws?
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Pure Brilliance:
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 15:13 |
crimson thing wrote:
and, just how useful a "defensive weapon" is a gun in a safe? You must have very patient & gentlemanly burglars............ |
You can open a safe quickly! Especially when it's designed to be opened quickly! My dad's safe can be opened in 10 seconds.
Forgotten Son wrote:
While I agree with gun restriction, a total ban is taking it too far, particularly in this country. When a ban on pistols came into effect all that happened was that people who acquired pistols legally and met all the laws regulating their use, dutifully handed them in, while people who want to use them illegally, acquire them illegally, which is why gun crime has still managed to increase, particularly in the city where I live.
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Well yeah, there is no reason for people to own 50 cal sniper rifles: you can't use it for defense, and hunting anything with that monster is complete overkill.
maani wrote:
Re Bush's "third term," Empathy is only mildly overstating the case. Although it would be unprecedented (no pun intended), the president does have the power, under certain conditions, to postpone elections. Normally, this would require a super-majority of Congress (2/3 of the Senate, 2/3 of the House) and, possibly, a majority of State governors. However, the president could attempt it, and even possibly carry it off. However, were that to happen, there would be no question of Bush's despotism (remember that he said, "This country would be easier to rule if it were a dictatorship"), and unless the country truly was in active and immediate danger, there would be an unbelievable backlash. |
Exactly, which is why I said it could never happen. It would be political suicide for any senator to back it, unless the Russians were invading Alaska or something and an election would make coordinated defense impossible. But I don't think the Russians are going to invade any time soon ;-)
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 16:55 |
Ghandi said: "You can open a safe quickly! Especially when it's designed to be opened quickly! My dad's safe can be opened in 10 seconds."
A burglar could shoot you to death or run at you with a knife and stab you in less than 10 seconds...
Peace.
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 17:35 |
maani wrote:
Ghandi said: "You can open a safe quickly! Especially when it's designed to be opened quickly! My dad's safe can be opened in 10 seconds."
A burglar could shoot you to death or run at you with a knife and stab you in less than 10 seconds... |
True. But the idea is to hear him breaking in before he runs up the stairs to stab you, which allows you to take the gun out in time.
Edited by Ghandi 2 - June 01 2006 at 17:36
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 18:17 |
Empathy wrote:
How did this turn into a thread abut gun laws? |
Because all Americans love guns. 
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 18:35 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
Empathy wrote:
How did this turn into a thread abut gun laws? |
Because all Americans love guns. |
Ghandi 2 certanly seems to.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 18:53 |
Ghandi:
In other words, under "optimal" conditions, having a gun in the safe might be useful. But how often are conditions "optimal?"
ALFW:
Not all Americans love guns!
Peace.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 19:03 |
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"Guns don't kill people, rappers do..." - Goldie Lookin' Chain
I agree with Tlossy about the banning of cap guns, BB Guns and the like. I am terrified of any future child of mine being brought up in a world of gun culture. Obviously I'd hope the morals I instill into them would stand them in good stead, but I fear that's not enough.
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 19:36 |
sleeper wrote:
Were do you live Forgotten Son, I know gun crime has been a real problem where I come from.
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I live in Nottingham.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 19:41 |
Forgotten Son wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Were do you live Forgotten Son, I know gun crime has been a real problem where I come from.
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I live in Nottingham.
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I'm from Birmingham so I know what your on about with bad guncrime.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 19:49 |
Geck0 wrote:
"Guns don't kill people, rappers do..." - Goldie Lookin' Chain
I
agree with Tlossy about the banning of cap guns, BB Guns and the like.
I am terrified of any future child of mine being brought up in a world
of gun culture. Obviously I'd hope the morals I instill into them
would stand them in good stead, but I fear that's not enough.
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That's taking things too far, it's perfectly safe to let children play with toy guns etc. There have been toy guns in this country for years and it's not been until fairly recently that gun crime has risen, so the claims that there is a causal relationship between the two has little basis in fact. Increased gun crime, IMO, is the result of increasing drug related crimes.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 19:56 |
Geck0 wrote:
"Guns don't kill people, rappers do..." - Goldie Lookin' Chain
I
agree with Tlossy about the banning of cap guns, BB Guns and the
like. I am terrified of any future child of mine being brought up
in a world of gun culture. Obviously I'd hope the morals I
instill into them would stand them in good stead, but I fear that's not
enough.
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I can't believe you're serious. Banning cap guns? Why not ban all video
games depicting guns while you're at it? How about all movies, comic
books, television shows, blogs and radio programs with violent content?
Oh yeah, and the news. Whoops, it's 1984.
Edited by thellama73 - June 01 2006 at 19:57
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 19:57 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
In the early Eighties I was drafted but not really pleased with it (like Frank Zappa ) and started to read books about the importance of selling weapons and support dictatorships in order to continue the situation for the USA multinationals. At about twenty years later few things has changed and, looking at the title of this thread, you can say that 'puppet on a string' Bush Junior and the 'Texas oil and weapons clan' have succeeded to dominate this world. For me it's incredible that such an unreliable and opportunistic person like Bush junior managed to become president of the USA but in my opinoin this is the proove that the democracy in the USA is related with money, bribery, corruptecy and the importance of selling weapons and oil, after Cambodia and Vietnam, I am afraid that Iraq will be another battlefield on which many innocent and poor USA civilians will pay for the interests of some rich families in the USA that rule this earth ....  ..
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While i totally agree with you now let's not forget that things have been much better some 6 years before when Clinton was president, while there were some extremely unimportant scandals surrounding him this president has achieved ( and has tried to achieve) quite a few things. Let's not forget the sorry role of our own government here, while many people here are concerned and worried about Bush and his clan our government sympathizes with them all the way  .
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: June 01 2006 at 20:20 |
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Well of course it's partly drug related, but cannot blaim everything on drugs.
I wasn't saying ban them, per se, but try and educate children better. Would you agree that maybe Air Rifles and BB guns could be banned? They have been used by teenagers to injure people and animals (whether deliberately or by accident). Maybe some of these teenagers were on drugs, maybe some were sons or daughters of single parents... but that's just stereotyping (although there is a lot of truth in those statements of course).
I'd certainly be all for a regulation in some television, sure. I feel television has gotten worse and if I had children, I'd limit them to what can view (and I also mean some childrens programs here too).
Don't go me wrong, I play violent video games and watch crime related films and I used to watch many 18 rated films when I was 15 or so and it never did me any harm. But I do feel there should maybe be more suitable programs on television for children and teenagers.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: June 02 2006 at 03:04 |
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: June 02 2006 at 10:00 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
Empathy wrote:
How did this turn into a thread abut gun laws? |
Because all Americans love guns. |
I don't, do you?
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Pure Brilliance:
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: June 02 2006 at 11:57 |
FYI:
Another characteristic of proto-totalitarianism is the undermining or control of elections:
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U.S. Moving Toward Totalitarianism?
