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mystic fred 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
 Topic: SACDPosted: May 30 2006 at 11:02 |
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Anybody tried Super Audio Compact Discs? After hearing how wonderful this high-resolution source was claimed to be i thought i'd give it a whirl, i found the results to be mixed but overall i noticed a good improvement in some recordings. generally very full sound with increased sound stage and sonic range, even with a budget SACD player. Unfortunately the lack of rock titles is a drawback, though classical music and jazz are forging ahead into the future with this format. Prog rock artists which have had some albums released in this format are -
Moody Blues - threshold of a dream/question of balance/in search ofthe lost chord/days of future passed/childrens childrens children
Can - tago mago/future days/monster movie/soundtracks/unlimited edition (more to follow)
Peter Gabriel - plays live/up/so/us/pg1/pg2/pg3/pg4/birdy/shaking the tree/passion
Pink Floyd - dark side of the moon
Jeff Wayne - war of the worlds
Wishbone Ash - almighty blues live
Deep Purple - machine head/live at the BBC
Mostly Autumn - passengers
Mike Oldfield - tubular bells
a word from the sponsors.....
"What is the technology behind SACD?
The sound of SACD comes directly from Direct Stream Digital (DSD) recording technology. DSD's simplified mechanism for recording and playback results in a frequency response of over 100kHz and a dynamic range over 120dB across the audible frequency range. DSD increases the resolution of music by more closely following the original wave form of the music, which results in music reproduction that is remarkably pure and faithful to the original. For additional information concerning the technology behind SACD, visit Sony Electronics SACD. What are the benefits of SACD? In addition to exceptional sound quality through the DSD system, the SACD format can accommodate more than four times the information of the current CD format. With this extra capacity, a standard Super Audio CD will provide space for 2-channel stereo data, as well as an area for up to 6-track multi-channel data, storage capacity for text and images, disc variations, copyright protection and much more. Will my current CD collection play on an SACD player? Yes. Super Audio CD players can play back all current CDs. Can I play a Super Audio CD on my current CD player? Only Hybrid SACDs - i.e., those containing a CD layer - can be played on CD compatible players. What is SACD Multi-channel? SACD multi-channel sound can contain as many as six separate channels, each captured on disc at the full DSD bit rate with the full DSD sound quality. Some producers will use the added channels to faithfully reproduce the precise acoustic signature of the performance space. Others will realize new creative possibilities, immersing the listener in a 360° field of sound. Multi-channel SACD takes its place beside stereo SACD as another compelling way to enjoy music. What is a Hybrid Super Audio CD (Hybrid SACD)? A Hybrid SACD contains two separate layers. One layer carries the normal CD information and the other layer contains the high density SACD information - a multichannel mix and/or stereo mix. A Hybrid SACD can be played on any CD compatible player. However, if played on a standard CD player, only the CD layer will play. The SACD layer can only be played on a SACD player. " Edited by mystic fred - May 30 2006 at 11:12 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 30 2006 at 11:13 |
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Of course there are many SACDs that suck - it's obvious that they can only sound good when the content was recorded, mixed and mastered in high quality.
This website is quite helpful: http://www.sa-cd.net/ |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: May 30 2006 at 11:21 |
i agree, i tried "layla" and it sounded muddy, worse than the vinyl, also santana's "abraxas" sounded a bit rough, but i found the peter gabriel albums, "tommy" and "a love supreme" excellent.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 30 2006 at 11:25 |
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I don't have a player ... I do have some Audio DVDs though, and I enjoy them mostly because of the 5.1 effects. It's simply nice to listen to a 5 piece band with the different instruments coming from different directions.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: May 30 2006 at 11:33 |
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from "Elliott Sound Productions" website...(maybe i invested wrongly..?) "read what Ing. Öhman wrote in the Swedish Audio Technical Society * journal.
The following are quoted from what Ing. Öhman wrote in the journal:
"It is nothing less than a tragedy that Sony/Philips system SACD still is considered to be a real competitor to DVD-A, though it has lower real resolution than the CD-system in the highest octave. DVD-A does absolutely offer a much higher dynamic range than CD, but it is very questionable if SACD does. SACD is in the high frequency range quite mediocre, even compared to a good CD-system one-bit DAC, and of course clearly inferior to a CD-player with a real multi-bit converter. On the contrary, DVD-A is in theory 250 times better than the CD-system at all frequencies! In today's reality though, it is hard to achieve such hyper-resolution, but maybe in the future? If the potential exists, recording and playback technology can evolve. Today the DVD-A resolution is about 16 times better than the CD-system and the bandwidth extends up to 100 kHz to be compared with 22,050 Hz for CD." are our ears good enough to detect this?? Edited by mystic fred - May 30 2006 at 11:35 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 30 2006 at 11:47 |
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^ I don't know ... I doubt that all of the above statements are true. For example, CD audio is sampled at 44,100 Hz and not 22,050 Hz ... and DVD-Audio is sampled at 96,000 Hz, not 100,000 Hz.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: May 30 2006 at 11:55 |
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Never heard a good SACD (i mean a record). One day maybe. Yeah and "Dark side" is awful. I muuch prefer the '94 remaster. Edited by oliverstoned - May 31 2006 at 01:25 |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 31 2006 at 09:10 |
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The theory behind SACD is good - using digital streaming and analogue filters, instead of digital brick walls that simply cut out swathes of potential sound as well as noise - but in practice, DVD-A sounds better to my ears.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 00:00 |
you should come round to my house, Oliver, and you'll hear some!
 i thought you'd never heard a good one? that is one of the best!!
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 06:58 |
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"Dark side" SACD is atrociously bumped and completly lost any "Life".
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 07:49 |
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^ Apparently opinion is divided ... I wouldn't be surprised if the SACD version of DSotM was mainly bashed by older people who heard the original vinyl pressing in their youth, and appreciated by people who bought the CD version and got used to that.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:10 |
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I would agree with the first half of your statement but not the second: the last 94' remaster is better.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:17 |
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^ I don't even know which one I have ... I'll check when I get home from work. But I don't think it's the remaster.
BTW: I did listen to it on vinyl first ... |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:30 |
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Indeed, the SACD version has lost any life.
Not to say that the 94' remaster is great... PF is poor on CD, like Beatles, another "huge" band. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:34 |
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I wonder what those people would say who have never listened to vinyl. Suppose they only listen to CD/SACD ... are you sure they would prefer vinyl once they listen to it?
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:37 |
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Humm...depends on the playback equipment IMO.
If they listen to both on mine, they should prefer the former version, but no one is real good. the problem with this SACD version is that the low is ridiculous bumped and disgusting. But i may sounds "good" on a poor system. Edited by oliverstoned - June 01 2006 at 08:46 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:47 |
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^ the people who created the SACD were no fools, and the reviews generally say that it's good. Do you really think that they optimized the mix for bad systems?
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:53 |
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Virtually all rock Cds are outrageously bumped.
The more i upgrade my system, the more good classical and jazz CDs work better, and the more it reveals how traffiked rock CDs are. I think it's optimized for everybody's system, or for "SACD" system with a little (false IMO) sub and many (poor IMO) speakers. That's quite logical anyway: audiophiles with real good systems are 0.01% of listeners. Beside that, IMO SACD technology is potentially better than CD. They just have to release some musical ones. Edited by oliverstoned - June 01 2006 at 08:58 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 08:56 |
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^ but one would think that SACD is catered for those 0.01%. I can't think of any reason for a non-audiophile person buying SACDs.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: June 01 2006 at 10:10 |
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i shall dig out my old vinyl copy i got in 1973 and compare it with my SACD anniversary copy, then mike and i can report back on our findings, oliver. |
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SACD
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MikeEnRegalia wrote: