Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - ’In Held Twas In I": first prog epic?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closed’In Held Twas In I": first prog epic?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: ’In Held Twas In I": first prog epic?
    Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:21
Over 17 minutes with varied themes and emotions, Procol Harum's 1968 melody "In Held Twas In I" seems to be the first to meet the prog epic criteria. Or was there anything earlier?
Back to Top
Mandrakeroot View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

Italian Prog Specialist

Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 03:46

YES!!!

 

For always yours, Mandrakeroot.
Back to Top
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 04:26
Originally posted by MANDRAKEROOT MANDRAKEROOT wrote:

YES!!!

Mandrakeroot, as a specialist on Italian prog, which was the first Italian prog epic?
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20241 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 05:58
yas for me two>> Fisher and Trower are fantastic
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
freebird View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 135 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 06:05
I loved "In held" when I got that album. Was this done by "Transatlantic" too? I heard it on XM and it sounded almost exactly the same.
Back to Top
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 06:22

Originally posted by freebird freebird wrote:

I loved "In held" when I got that album. Was this done by "Transatlantic" too? I heard it on XM and it sounded almost exactly the same.

They certainly did. They also did the Abbey Road medley live (on "Live in America").
Back to Top
Abstrakt View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 06:49

Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Over 17 minutes with varied themes and emotions, Procol Harum's 1968 melody "In Held Twas In I" seems to be the first to meet the prog epic criteria. Or was there anything earlier?

i don't know, but i don't think there is an earlier epic . of course, there was stuff going on in 65-67, but that wasn't epics.
Back to Top
freebird View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 135 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2006 at 08:07
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by freebird freebird wrote:

I loved "In held" when I got that album. Was this done by "Transatlantic" too? I heard it on XM and it sounded almost exactly the same.

They certainly did. They also did the Abbey Road medley live (on "Live in America").

Is it my imagination or is the "Transatlantic" version almost the same? Is the newer one any better? I only heard the last part of it.
Back to Top
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2006 at 05:36
Anyone knows the exact release date for Procol Harum's 1968 album "Shine on brightly" which had "In Held Twas In I" on it?
 
I'm asking because The Nice released the "Ars longa vita brevis" suite in November 1968. It clocks in at 19:26 and perhaps rightly deserves the "First Epic" tag? (How could I possibly forget this?!)
 
Recording and release dates for these first epics?
Back to Top
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2006 at 06:23
Another thread has revealed that "Shine on Brightly" was released December '68, while "Ars longa vita brevis" was released November '68. Don't know which of the two was recorded first.
 
Consequently, "Ars" is the first symphonic prog epic, beating "In Held Twas In I" with an inch.
Back to Top
Cheesecakemouse View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2006 at 06:50
Try listening to Miles Davis in a silent way 2 20 minute Jazz pieces with a somewhat symphonic structure (this was the beginning of his fusion period so it counts as prog). I listened to it the other day I'm sure bands like Van Der Graft Generator and King Crimson got ideas from it, give the album a listen and you'll see what I mean.Wink



  
Back to Top
Drachen Theaker View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 22 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 376 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2006 at 09:19
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Anyone knows the exact release date for Procol Harum's 1968 album "Shine on brightly" which had "In Held Twas In I" on it?
 
I'm asking because The Nice released the "Ars longa vita brevis" suite in November 1968. It clocks in at 19:26 and perhaps rightly deserves the "First Epic" tag? (How could I possibly forget this?!)
 
Recording and release dates for these first epics?
 
Hello again earlyprog! There was a thread about this a few months back. I think the conclusion was Ars Longa Vita Brevis (November'68) was the first 20 minute prog epic as it was released before Shine on Brightly (December '68).
 
PS. Have you accepted that Ars Longa was the first symphonic prog album yet?Wink
"It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20241 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2006 at 09:03
Having just finished the book Beyond The Pale, Shine on Brightly was releasedin the UK in -dec 68, but released in the US in Sept 68 and Germany in oct 68
 
Still a fave track of mine, but on that album, thete is another real masterpiece: Skip Away My Moonbeams >> fantastic also
 
 
ooooooppss!!!!!!.............. wrong thread


Edited by Sean Trane - May 27 2006 at 09:04
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
Soul Dreamer View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 17 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 997 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2006 at 21:00
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Over 17 minutes with varied themes and emotions, Procol Harum's 1968 melody "In Held Twas In I" seems to be the first to meet the prog epic criteria. Or was there anything earlier?
 
Well, I'm not shure but The Collectors released an epic in 1968 which is called "What Love (Suite)" which clocks at 19:15. It's in the archives and there's a review of Sean Trane
 
 
In my opinion this is the first occurence of a full-blown symphonic rock epic (if it's before the Procol Harum and Nice tracks)
I have this on vinyl, but I bought it somewhere in the '70 and the album doesn't give a definite release date except 1968. I also tried to Google it but no result. There is one article about it in the net which is very interesting to read (and shows that these guys were really composing, not just jamming, when making this suite):
 
Back to Top
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2006 at 03:49

I'm definitely going to buy The Collectors, Soul Dreamer. Just haven't found it on amazon.co.uk yet.
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20241 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2006 at 04:03
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

I'm definitely going to buy The Collectors, Soul Dreamer. Just haven't found it on amazon.co.uk yet.

You will love The Collectors >> Vanilla Fudge meets Moody BluesWink
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20241 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2006 at 04:09
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23988Wink
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
Progger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2007 at 23:04
And some people are still deluded in believin' that ITCOTKC was the first prog album?Disapprove
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12813 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 07:22
Have to wonder wrt the  Electric Prunes 1967  Mass In F Minor - btw when did Arlo Guthrie release Alice's Restaurant?
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
earlyprog View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams

Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 09:16
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Have to wonder wrt the  Electric Prunes 1967  Mass In F Minor - btw when did Arlo Guthrie release Alice's Restaurant?
 
Alice's Restaurant Massacree (18:20) 1967 Arlo Guthrie "Alice's Restaurant". Exact release date?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.242 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.