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progreviews View Drop Down
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Points: 271 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2006 at 12:10
Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:


John Zorn - meh, i feel like some of these guys are missing the original idea behind RIO and rehashing the same sh*t over and over again



heh. Zorn has absolutely nothing to do with RIO (aside from collaborating with Fred Frith once in a while). I guess Naked City (one of the PA tracks) could have some similarity to stuff like Ruins. But Masada? How exactly does Ornette Coleman-style avant-jazz gone Jewish rehash RIO?

Cool that you liked Art Zoyd so much, kind of surprising since they're sort of like Univers Zero who you didn't seem to like (and they're just as dark). Nazca, Decibel, etc etc are worth checking out if you like this style.

Edited by progreviews - May 26 2006 at 12:12
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Points: 395 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2006 at 11:23
ok, just listening to the tracks available on the site
 
heres what i liked
 
Absolute Zero - pretty good, surprising to me because i don't really like any modern bands
 
Art Zoyd - fantastic, i really like this
 
Alaimaailan Vasarat - very enjoyable, strange syle
 
Art Bears - I guess i sort of like this, but i think i would like to hear more from them
 
French TV - although you can hear the modern sound, it's enjoyable, although it's getting better as i am listening to it, pretty good
 
Gatto Marte - good
 
henry cow - good, wish there were more tracks available on the site
 
h-cone - i like this a lot actually, although it is making me realize how symphonic these bands can be sometimes
 
Mike Keneally -  alright, this is pretty good to, but this RIO stuff is losing my interest at this point, it's not even that difficult to get into any more, all the oddness is getting predictable, hopefully some later tracks spark my interest again, maybe this guy is just lame or something, i dont know, maybe i am saying this because there may be a lot of w**kering going on here
 
Mr. Bungle - don't actually like this, but 4 years ago, i would have been all about this band i am sure (I feel liket his band should have some connection to Steve Vai, don't know why, am I right?)
 
Not sure whose goofiness i prefer more, The Residents or SMM, either way, i don't think either is that great
 
Sleepy Time blah blah blah - this music is so over the top, i hate it
 
Taal -  pretty good, nothing special, pretty symphonic again
 
John Zorn - meh, i feel like some of these guys are missing the original idea behind RIO and rehashing the same sh*t over and over again
 
awaiting comments hahaha, but i am definitely pick up some Art Zoyd, goddamn that was good
 
Aaron
 
 
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2006 at 10:00
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Is Hasse Bruniusson going to be added?  (I don't think he has, he may have...)  Anyhow, I've heard some samples and I quite liked them, is this typical of SMM?
 
The only Bruiniusson solo stuff I've heard is Flying Food Circus, and if you mean that then the answer is "sorta". That album certainly shares many characteristics with SMM but is also quite different in its own way. It's safe to say, though, that if you like one you'll like t'other. Samla are essential, Geck0, and I've no hesitation in recommending them to you. Get Maltid, Klossa Knapitatet and Kaka.
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Points: 6667 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2006 at 06:32
Fans are usually more "fanatic" than musicians. Wink
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Points: 7003 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:03
QUOTE=robertplantowns]
Originally posted by walrus333 walrus333 wrote:

I havent heard much of the RIO/Avant category except for Alamaailman Vasarat, and Captain Beefheart. Is there a difference between RIO and Avant prog?



RIO stands for Rock in Opposition and was a movement in the late 70s led by Henry Cow to show their opposition to the music industry.  Henry Cow started the festival which included the bands Henry Cow, Stormy Six, Samla Mammas Manna, Univers Zero, and
Etron Fou Leloublan.  Art Zoyd and Art Bears which was an offshoot of Henry Cow, would later join the movement.  The original festival featured bands with different styles and at the time at least, RIO referred to the movement rather than a specific style of music.  Now RIO has become synonymous with avant-prog which is why the two are smushed together here at the archives, but a true RIO purist will tell you that RIO music was a movement at a particular point in time that cannot be resurrected by other groups.  Newer avant prog groups such as the 5UU's, Miriodor, Thinking Plague and Guapo can be considered "RIO influenced" but not truly RIO themselves.  Avant-prog refers to music that came after the RIO movement that took what some avant garde bands did and ran with it.  Avant-prog although while being effectively synonymous with RIO to most people, is a much broader genre and includes all avant-garde rock.
[/QUOTE]
 
I have bumped into Chris Cutler once or twice on my visits to ReR and I may put this question to him myself. I doubt if he's particularly aware of this site, but you never know...
 
Most of the bands in the RIO/Avant prog category are distributed by ReR Megacorp and have worked with some of the original RIO musicians so there is a clear link. Zappa and Beefheart were both in Recommended Records (ReR's precursor) 'cutural heritage' category, along with Faust (whose albums were rereleased via Recommended), Magma and Sun Ra, to name but several. Clearly the musicians themselves are less bothered about strict categorisation than the fans.
 
As Brandon pointed out, the difference between RIO and Avant Prog is basically semantic and not worth worrying about.
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 18:01
Is Hasse Bruniusson going to be added?  (I don't think he has, he may have...)  Anyhow, I've heard some samples and I quite liked them, is this typical of SMM?
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Points: 7003 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 17:51
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All good choices Brandon. I personally rate Winter Songs as Art Bears' finest moment, but it's a tough call. Some other favourites (using the RIO/Avant label somewhat loosely)
 
  • Fred Frith - Gravity
  • Zammla Mammaz Manna - Schlagerns Mystik/For Aldere Nybegynnare
  • Greaves & Blegvad - Kew.Rhone
  • Chris Cutler & Fred Frith - Live in Moscow, Prague & Washington
  • Massacre - New York Killing Time
  • Birdsongs of the Mesozoic - Sonic Geology
  • French TV - The Violence of Amateurs
  • The Residents - 3rd Reich & Roll
  • Skeleton Crew - Learn to Talk
  • This Heat - Deceit

Not all of these are in the archive yet, but when I get the time there will be some more additions.
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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Points: 271 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 13:55
Some of my all-time favorite RIO/avant-rock (the difference is mostly semantic and it's mostly pointless to debate it) albums, among the relatively better-known stuff:

5uu's - Hunger's Teeth
Art Bears - The World as it is Today
Etron Fou Leloublan - Batelages
Henry Cow - In Praise of Listening
Henry Cow - Western Culture
Motor Totemist Guild - City of Mirrors
Present - High Infidelity
Shub Niggurath - Les Morts Vont Vite
U Totem - U Totem
Univers Zero - Heresie
Univers Zero - Uzed

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Note that I don't consider bands like Alamaailman Vasarat or Taal to be "avant"... but I also don't want to get into hair-splitting categorization arguments, so I'll leave it at that.
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Points: 284 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 10:32
Originally posted by avestin avestin wrote:

Well I have a specific question about several bands which I am interested to listen to. They are:
 
Hamster has no bio and only one review (by RoyalJelly ) giving it 5 stars.

 
I've written a review about Hamster, which i will post somewhen in the future.
 
meanwhile i put a tutorial of it here, i hope it will help Smile
 
Sorry for the english believe, me its frustrating to try to say something in a lengwige you dont know well enough. i hope you'll understand what i'm trying to say in general.
 
i gave it 4 points but it deserves 5 points as well, so i agree with RoyalJelly. Due to my own personnal taste, it is 4 points.
 
REVIEW:

 

Ok I see they are on the archives, so I can give my review. Even thogh im not shure that this kind of music could be described as progressive rock, not that is matter much to me. Carnival contains very complicated compositions, with many kind of modern classical techniques, and rock elements, such as instruments like drums, electric guitars, and rock ideas in general, combined with many more influences. So it cannot be defined as classical music, and actually, what can be more exiceted than that? Art rock at the higest level, that

pushing the bounderies to the limit while remain hounting and captivating.
 

As  I mentioned before, there are a lot of influences here from many music styles, its all very eclectic. Marches bands, klazmer, even the 90s electronics represented here in few compositions, along with folk/traditional music. In addition to some modern classical ideas, rock styles and many more. Especially I liked the klazmer parts, it is done very well.

The jumps  between styles can occure even at the same track. Personally I prefere the more relaxed compositions and less jumpy, even thogh the jumps are justified, it doesn’t occure because someone lost control, it is done to give andralamusia enviroment, kind of carnaval.

I liked compositions such as jeanne marie, tick fever ,drunken penguin tango (which suit exactly to the name description),  the cat song, wonderful klazmer, and a reluctnas farewell which ends up the record, and ends with a wonderfull accordion notes in the unique style of Dave Willey.

 

there are lot of unusell instrumants combinations which is unpredictabley works: trombone goes with toys instruments like harmoniume, melodica, guitarron, , cheap electric guitar along with real electric guitar, woodwinds, mandolin, acoustic bass, drums, and to add spice to that, a little bit electronica. It all create a very colorfull and original environment

in short, these guys are remarkable talented and creative. It is recommended to follow them in their various bands and projects. For all who look for originall and innovative music that do not just repeat on things done in the past, it is worthwhile to look after these people.

 

They are all come from the west of US which seemed to be THE geographical era right now for any innovative and original music.

 

About the rating:

I was little miser here, the overall quality could defenitly fit to 5 points, but to definit something as a masterpiece it is also a matter of personall taste, kind of filling etc. I, personally didn’t got that speciall filling of masterpiece even thogh the very high quality. I think excellent addition to any prog collection can describe it  well, and that’s enough. You can take it as 4.5 points.

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Points: 6667 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 09:55
Aaron, I forgot: a beautiful piece of avant-garde music (serious, not dark):
Listen to: "A Carrot Is As Close As A Rabbit Comes To A Diamond" (it might not sound so serious to you, but just try it Smile).
 
Apart from that, it's pretty necessary to have a sense of humour and/or a liking of dark music if you're trying to listen to RIO and/or Avant-Prog.
 
"Does Humor Belong In Music?" - FZ
 
PS I hope you find something you like.


Edited by Joren - May 25 2006 at 09:55
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Points: 6667 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 09:45
Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:

Originally posted by progreviews progreviews wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:


Is RIO always as dark as UZ?

Aaron

I don't know Aaron, that's a good question.  Maybe someone here can enlighten us, so we don't have to find out for ourselves.

Aaron


Ha. The short answer is no.

The slightly less short answer is: go check out bands like Samla Mammas Manna, just to name one. No one would ever call them "dark".
    
 
well, i listened to a few samples and although they were good, just not my kind of music, i like it to be a bit more serious, give me another band besides SMM
 
Aaron
 
So you want serious but not dark? Hmm. I guess Absolute Zero aren't really THAT dark. They wear their darkness on their sleeves, so to speak.
 
And also maybe try some avant-prog rather than pure Rock In Opposition. A bit of Taal or Alamaailman Vasarat, mebbe.
 
Absolute Zero and Alamaailman Vaserat aren't very dark indeed, and still pretty serious. Then again, Absolute Zero's music could also be described as some sort of very heavy, avant-garde form of Jazz Rock/Fusion. You can listen to a sample track here:
 
You could also try "The Festival Of Death" from The Residents. The album it's from is very serious and at the same time not very serious. On "The Festival Of Death" you can hear some pretty "serious" (it depends if you take it seriously or not, really Wink) and not very dark avant-garde stuff. Especially the ending part (with the tuned percussion) is great.


Edited by Joren - May 25 2006 at 09:45
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 09:03
Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by ivansfr0st ivansfr0st wrote:

Question: shouldn't RIO and Avant-prog be seperated?
 
 -- Ivan
 
In an ideal world, yes. The way the archives has arranged the two has caused a lot of confusion for some people. Hence "Is Zappa RIO?" queries. The trouble arises partially out of the "When do we say enough?" issue and also the difficult cases such as Thinking Plague and 5uu's who are clearly heavily grounded in RIO sounds but are not part of the actual RIO scene. So basically, it's better to live with something slightly inadequate than end up making it worse by trying to make it better. IMO.
 
I may be completely wrong when I say this, but if a group is so strongly rooted in a type of music, despite not fitting in terms of location and time, shouldn't they be still included because of the musical similarities alone? Then we can move RIO groups to a RIO category, and those who have no relation to RIO to be in an Avant-Garde category.
 
 -- Ivan
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:26
Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:

Originally posted by progreviews progreviews wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:


Is RIO always as dark as UZ?

Aaron

I don't know Aaron, that's a good question.  Maybe someone here can enlighten us, so we don't have to find out for ourselves.

Aaron


Ha. The short answer is no.

The slightly less short answer is: go check out bands like Samla Mammas Manna, just to name one. No one would ever call them "dark".
    
 
well, i listened to a few samples and although they were good, just not my kind of music, i like it to be a bit more serious, give me another band besides SMM
 
Aaron
 
So you want serious but not dark? Hmm. I guess Absolute Zero aren't really THAT dark. They wear their darkness on their sleeves, so to speak.
 
And also maybe try some avant-prog rather than pure Rock In Opposition. A bit of Taal or Alamaailman Vasarat, mebbe.
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Points: 395 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:23
Originally posted by progreviews progreviews wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:

Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:


Is RIO always as dark as UZ?

Aaron

I don't know Aaron, that's a good question.  Maybe someone here can enlighten us, so we don't have to find out for ourselves.

Aaron


Ha. The short answer is no.

The slightly less short answer is: go check out bands like Samla Mammas Manna, just to name one. No one would ever call them "dark".
    
 
well, i listened to a few samples and although they were good, just not my kind of music, i like it to be a bit more serious, give me another band besides SMM
 
Aaron
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:19
Originally posted by ivansfr0st ivansfr0st wrote:

Question: shouldn't RIO and Avant-prog be seperated?
 
 -- Ivan
 
In an ideal world, yes. The way the archives has arranged the two has caused a lot of confusion for some people. Hence "Is Zappa RIO?" queries. The trouble arises partially out of the "When do we say enough?" issue and also the difficult cases such as Thinking Plague and 5uu's who are clearly heavily grounded in RIO sounds but are not part of the actual RIO scene. So basically, it's better to live with something slightly inadequate than end up making it worse by trying to make it better. IMO.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:15
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Guys, you mean Taal are great.

I hear they're in the studio, so I hope to expect an album soon, here's hoping!

I love Alamaailman Vasarat, what a fantastic band!  I cannot wait to hear Hoyry-kone.
 
New tasty Taal goodness? Can't wait!
 
Alamaailman Vasarat = Effin' wonderful.
 
Hoyry-Kone - You mean you haven't heard them yet? You're in for a treat, mate.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:13
Originally posted by aramg aramg wrote:

Does Zappa fall under RIO or Avant-Prog? What about Captain Beefheart?
 
The closest fit for those two is avant-prog, I guess... but as Jelly said, they created a genre unto themselves. This is true for many avant-prog bands, however. They're square pegs in a world of round holes.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:11
Originally posted by Alucard Alucard wrote:

Dear Dr. TP,

every time I put a Henry Cow CD on, my girlfriend throws sharp objects at me.I am so desperate. Could you please tell me  what to do?

yours truly
Alucard
 
PS: The Canterbury team is  adding some lesser known  bands. Do you know the French Band 'Anaïd', and when yes would you file them under Canterbury or RIO?
 
I too have noticed this puzzling phenomenon whenever I play my girlfriend Thinking Plague or Absolute Zero. I suggest you make sure any heavy, sharp or in any way weapon-like objects are removed from the surrounding area and placed in a secure environment before sticking on the Cow next time.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:08
Originally posted by Aaron Aaron wrote:

I have found that of all the genres, RIO was the hardest to get into, and I still don't listen to it all that much, I'd like to but I am on to other things at the moment.  The first album that I heard of the genre was Univers Zero's 1313, which I love.  Then I pick up Heresie and the first two Present albums.  That's when my RIO purchasing came to a halt.  Though I do plan on picking up the third UZ album, because I have heard wonderful things.

Is RIO always as dark as UZ?
 
Aaron
 
Not at all. RIO can be full of fun (albeit very mischevious fun). If you want to hear a lighter side to RIO then try Swedish mentalists Samla Mammas Manna for size!
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Points: 582 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 06:42
Originally posted by aramg aramg wrote:

Does Zappa fall under RIO or Avant-Prog? What about Captain Beefheart?

    
I think both Zappa and Beefheart have actually each created a genre unto themselves...in the same way that one can speak of "Felliniesque" aspects of a movie, photo, or anything (the word is actually in the dictionary), one can easily speak of Zappaesque aspects in someone's music...Beefheart's music is also clearly a musical universe unto itself, which had a strong influence on many avant-punk bands, etc. I think it would be wrong to label either RIO, although both waged constant war on the industry. Most or all of the RIO musicians (who came from the aforementioned movement) were influenced at an early point by Zappa & the Mothers, and many by Beefheart...this influence was also felt by most early prog bands, from the Beatles to Yes, etc.
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