| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
earlyprog 
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
|
 Topic: The Nice: proto-prog or symphonic prog?
Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:31 |
Music became increasingly progressive circa 1966-1969. Albums from this period that are somewhat short of being 100% progressive are termed proto-prog. Near the end of the proto-prog era, the first albums deserving the symphonic prog tag appeared.
The Nice's albums were never 100% symphonic prog, "Ars Longs Vita Brevis" and "Five Bridges" probably being their most symphonic offerings. But do they contain a sufficient amount of symphonic prog to let The Nice qualify as a symphonic prog band?
|
 |
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:35 |
|
Yes.
|
|
|
|
earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:39 |
 Snow Dog wrote:
Yes. |
I knew you would say that 
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:41 |
earlyprog wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Yes. |
I knew you would say that |
I knew you knew that I'd say that. 
|
|
|
|
YYZed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 282
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:13 |
|
proto
|
|
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:20 |
|
Proto
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
progadicto
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4316
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 20:25 |
|
I have to say PROTO even when the sound of ARS LONGA VITA BREVIS could be very close to early really prog bands, I think that NICE was a pioneer band but still far of what I consider Prog...
|
|
... E N E L B U N K E R...
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 02:31 |
The Nice is the closer you can get to ELP, they have their differences but are very similar in styles and influences, where ELP is The Nice should also be, that's why we decided to add The Nice to Symphonic.
Arguments:
- Linguistic: Proto means almost, before or the first of a kind. Does somebody considers that The Nice where not already Prog?
- Definition in PA:
| Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 What about Zappa? he's not in Proto Prog, Pink Floyd also. There are exceptions to almost any rule.
that influenced the development of progressive rock. The Nice didn't influenced Prog, they were already Prog. For God's sake Rondo from their debut album is the closer of every ELP concert.
The late 60's was a predominately experimental period for music. These bands were moving in a stream that eventually led to prog. The Nice wasn't just moving towards Prog, they already had reached it.
The influence could have come from new sophisticated forms of writing and playing music, recording techniques, new instruments and vocal harmonies to name a few. Some of these bands became progressive rock bands themselves others did not. The Nice was born as Prog, they didn't became more or less Prog in the 1970, they were Prog always. As a fact anything done by The Nice is far more Prog than any song by Lake from Works I and II.
|
I don't care when they started, maybe they were years ahead of their time and ELP can't go to Proto Prog. 
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 24 2006 at 02:49
|
|
|
|
Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 02:37 |
|
I agree with Ivan about not separating The Nice from ELP. IT's true not all of their albums are symphonic, but this is also true of many other bands, such as Genesis and Yes. The bands featured in the Proto-Prog category are so diverse, and in many cases quite distantly related to Prog (as in the case of The Beatles) - while The Nice's relationship with Prog, and in particular with the Symphonic subgenre, is much clearer.
|
|
earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 06:39 |
If The Nice had released a truly symphonic prog album after the year 1969, they would no longer comply with the proto-prog definition but instead qualify as symphonic prog because they in fact did become a progressive rock band (see the proto-prog definition in PA).
If we can agree that "Five Bridges", released in 1970, is symphonic prog (as opposed to proto-prog on their previous albums, IMO), then The Nice is correctly placed in the symphonic prog genre.
|
|
earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 06:44 |
|
Zappa and Pink Floyd were in existence prior to 1969, but are not proto-prog because they developed into true subgenre progressive rock after 1969. This is in full agreement with the proto-prog definition.
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 12:32 |
Earlyprog wrote:
| Zappa and Pink Floyd were in existence prior to 1969, but are not proto-prog because they developed into true subgenre progressive rock after 1969. This is in full agreement with the proto-prog definition. |
IMO The NIce were Prog Rock almost (if not) since they were born.
BTW: The definition is confusing, it doesn't say that the Proto Prog bands that developed a Prog sound left Proto Prog and are now ascribed into other subgenre. The definition says some Proto Prog bands became Prog and others dont but all will be under the label of Proto Prog "per secula seculorum".
Iván
|
|
|
|
earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2157
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:52 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Earlyprog wrote:
| Zappa and Pink Floyd were in existence prior to 1969, but are not proto-prog because they developed into true subgenre progressive rock after 1969. This is in full agreement with the proto-prog definition. |
IMO The NIce were Prog Rock almost (if not) since they were born.
BTW: The definition is confusing, it doesn't say that the Proto Prog bands that developed a Prog sound left Proto Prog and are now ascribed into other subgenre. The definition says some Proto Prog bands became Prog and others dont but all will be under the label of Proto Prog "per secula seculorum".
Iván |
In that case it's even more obvious that The Nice is proto-prog.
|
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 00:05 |
earlyprog wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Earlyprog wrote:
| Zappa and Pink Floyd were in existence prior to 1969, but are not proto-prog because they developed into true subgenre progressive rock after 1969. This is in full agreement with the proto-prog definition. |
IMO The NIce were Prog Rock almost (if not) since they were born.
BTW: The definition is confusing, it doesn't say that the Proto Prog bands that developed a Prog sound left Proto Prog and are now ascribed into other subgenre. The definition says some Proto Prog bands became Prog and others dont but all will be under the label of Proto Prog "per secula seculorum".
Iván |
In that case it's even more obvious that The Nice is proto-prog. |
Not IMO, I believe they were always one step ahead of Proto Prog bands.
Iván
|
|
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 00:52 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Earlyprog wrote:
| Zappa
and Pink Floyd were in existence prior to 1969, but are not proto-prog
because they developed into true subgenre progressive rock after 1969.
This is in full agreement with the proto-prog definition. |
IMO The NIce were Prog Rock almost (if not) since they were born.
BTW: The definition is confusing, it doesn't say that the Proto
Prog bands that developed a Prog sound left Proto Prog and are now
ascribed into other subgenre. The definition says some Proto Prog
bands became Prog and others dont but all will be under
the label of Proto Prog "per secula seculorum".
Iván |
In that case it's even more obvious that The Nice is proto-prog. |
Not IMO, I believe they were always one step ahead of Proto Prog bands.
Iván |
of course they were Ivan...
they were doing rock versions of pieces from composers like Sibilus when groups like Yes were doing damn Beatles covers....
obviously symphonic and honestly a bit surprised that the vote doesn't reflect it....
|
|
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
|
|
ANDREW
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 3064
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 05:15 |
|
Proto-prog together with MOODY BLUES and PROCOL HARUM!!!
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
The Nice: proto-prog or symphonic prog?
