What does prog/progressive rock mean to you

IMO its a mix of the three options since Almost all of the prog bands has the common caracteristics of time changes virtuoso players ect. but it also pushes the boundries of music as we speak. The second choice could also be the same as the third If you think about it 

Far to many individualistic styles of bands for prog to be considered a genre, if it was so, then it would be a very broad genre.

In the late 1960s - early 1970s the term Progressive was bandied about quite a lot - possibly as a result of the incredibly progressive opi from the fab 4 and the stuff they inspired and were inspired by.

Progressive meant all kinds of things - Progressive Blues included Savoy Brown and John Mayall - who didn't push the blues envelope as far as, say, Pink Floyd (originally a blues band, and "Money" as a single example was based on blues).

Progressive, in terms of the orignal Prog Rock bands is fairly obviously Progressive in all 5 elements of music - whether intentionally or not.

It has nothing to do with complexity, but experimentation with all the parameters. If you consider the "Classic" Prog bands that came to the fore in the early 1970s, they all have this link in common.

Note that this also has little to do with drawing from other genres, rather the old rock song was given a real run for its money, and compositions were formed, rather than the noodly improv-based freak-outs of psychedelia, and the slicker, but equally noodly progressive blues.

Prog Rock is not a style, it is an approach to writing rock songs that involves significantly more composition.

The test for this is to listen to all 5 musical elements (Form, Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, Timbre) - and ask the simple question; Does this piece push the boundaries of most or all elements?

If no, then it's probably not Prog.

If yes, then it probably is.

Obviously, there's more to it, but to spare the essay, that's the essence.

micky wrote: Bern wrote: micky wrote: Bern wrote: IMO, it is a mix of the first option and the third option although I voted for the third one because I think it's more important. The second option is not really actual IMO. For me, prog rock is simply music without boundaries of any kind and often, that music is complex and the virtuosity of the musicians is easy to see. That's about it hey Bern ... I don't think you can so easiliy discount the second option.  How else can you discuss such dissimiliar groups like Hawkwind, Magma, and say.. Renaissance.  Yeah I know sorry. I wasn't clear about that. Back then, the second option was really important and a lot of bands progressed from normal rock to more adventurous rock and it was the beginning of the prog era. My explanation was more about today's prog. Nowadays, the second option isn't really true. Apart from a few exceptions, we rarely see a band invent a TOTALLY new style of music. Hope my explanation is alright just great.... modern prog is the great case for it being a genre in itself.  When that happens though.. you might get tied to certain aspects that are synominous with prog thus the ability to really expand might be curtailed.... A question to ask for anyone (everyone ahhaha) who knows Dream Theater better than me.  Has Dream Theater 'grown' over the course of their career, or are they a 'what you hear is what you get' kind of group. IF so.. how...

I would honestly say that there are no two DT albums that sound the same. From the six that I've got (from eight) Images & Words very much has an 80's metal sound to it, especially on the drums. The follow up, Awake, moved away from this but also had a much darker atmosphere. I dont have Falling Into Infinity but the general concensus is that it was a bit poppier than their other albums (aparantly forced by the record company). Scenes From A Memory is a concept album that has a unique sound of its own (sorry, I'm not quite sure how to describe that how different it is from previous releases, but I can hear that it is). Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulance is the bands most experimental album yet, they also began to head into much heavier metal sound. Train Of Thought is the bands least progressive release, sounds a fair bit like Metallica to be honest but it does stand out as being a unique album in their discography because of this. The last album, Octavarium calmed it down a bit and they deliberatly put in many musical references to other bands past and present, a lot spacier in parts as well.

Phew, I hope this answer your question Micky

sleeper wrote: micky wrote: Bern wrote: micky wrote: Bern wrote: IMO, it is a mix of the first option and the third option although I voted for the third one because I think it's more important. The second option is not really actual IMO. For me, prog rock is simply music without boundaries of any kind and often, that music is complex and the virtuosity of the musicians is easy to see. That's about it hey Bern ... I don't think you can so easiliy discount the second option.  How else can you discuss such dissimiliar groups like Hawkwind, Magma, and say.. Renaissance.  Yeah I know sorry. I wasn't clear about that. Back then, the second option was really important and a lot of bands progressed from normal rock to more adventurous rock and it was the beginning of the prog era. My explanation was more about today's prog. Nowadays, the second option isn't really true. Apart from a few exceptions, we rarely see a band invent a TOTALLY new style of music. Hope my explanation is alright just great.... modern prog is the great case for it being a genre in itself.  When that happens though.. you might get tied to certain aspects that are synominous with prog thus the ability to really expand might be curtailed.... A question to ask for anyone (everyone ahhaha) who knows Dream Theater better than me.  Has Dream Theater 'grown' over the course of their career, or are they a 'what you hear is what you get' kind of group. IF so.. how... I would honestly say that there are no two DT albums that sound the same. From the six that I've got (from eight) Images & Words very much has an 80's metal sound to it, especially on the drums. The follow up, Awake, moved away from this but also had a much darker atmosphere. I dont have Falling Into Infinity but the general concensus is that it was a bit poppier than their other albums (aparantly forced by the record company). Scenes From A Memory is a concept album that has a unique sound of its own (sorry, I'm not quite sure how to describe that how different it is from previous releases, but I can hear that it is). Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulance is the bands most experimental album yet, they also began to head into much heavier metal sound. Train Of Thought is the bands least progressive release, sounds a fair bit like Metallica to be honest but it does stand out as being a unique album in their discography because of this. The last album, Octavarium calmed it down a bit and they deliberatly put in many musical references to other bands past and present, a lot spacier in parts as well. Phew, I hope this answer your question Micky

it does.. thanks though it shoots my possible theory to hell hahahhaha  

sleeper wrote: I think its a combination of all 3 but with the first option being the most important/prominant. For me prog rock generally just gives me a feeling that instantly says "this is prog", its why I have no trouble grouping PF, Yes, DT, Mr Bungle etc under the prog banner, its also why I am yet to be convinced on some bands, Radiohead being the biggest name I'm yet to get my head around (though I need to listen to more of their music).

Progressive music for me is an idea, rather than an explicit genre. The three things micky stated in the beginning are well-stated physical compnents to it, but prog music is a state of mind, possessing the capability to embrace change. Clear as mud?  

Progressive Rock to me is:

A Fusion of different genres to create epic stories that are original but aren't cheesy.

Bern wrote: IMO, it is a mix of the first option and the third option although I voted for the third one because I think it's more important. The second option is not really actual IMO.

sleeper wrote: I think its a combination of all 3 but with the first option being the most important/prominant. For me prog rock generally just gives me a feeling that instantly says "this is prog", its why I have no trouble grouping PF, Yes, DT, Mr Bungle etc under the prog banner, its also why I am yet to be convinced on some bands, Radiohead being the biggest name I'm yet to get my head around (though I need to listen to more of their music).

Agree with everything you just said.