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eugene 
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Joined: May 30 2005
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 Posted: May 15 2006 at 18:49 |
 Certif1ed wrote:
On that list, Can - but I wouldn't classify their music as Krautrock.
Sure they are German, but the music has almost nothing in common with Guru Guru, Neu, Faust et al.
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Oh, that's a surprise for me. I always thought Can (along with Faust) are number one of Krautrock. So how would you classify their music then?
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carefulwiththataxe
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micky
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Posted: May 15 2006 at 21:26 |
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other since my two favs weren't on the list
Amon Duul and Popol Vuh
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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progadicto
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Posted: May 15 2006 at 21:30 |
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I love CAN, FAUST and ASH RA but my vote goes for GROBSCHNITT because the album SOLAR MUSIC LIVE is just amazing and IMO the greatest of the genre...
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... E N E L B U N K E R...
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 16 2006 at 02:48 |
eugene wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
On that list, Can - but I wouldn't classify their music as Krautrock. Sure they are German, but the music has almost nothing in common with Guru Guru, Neu, Faust et al. |
Oh, that's a surprise for me. I always thought Can (along with Faust) are number one of Krautrock. So how would you classify their music then?
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I'm not into classifying, as I believe there are far too many inconsistencies and inaccuracies with the way bands are classified as a general rule.
It seems in many ways that Can's music is out on its own - possibly due to the close influence of the composer Karlheinz Stockhausen on Czukay and Schmidt (both were students under Stockhausen), and the free-jazz drumming style of Liebezeit - in fact, the only band I've ever heard come close to the Can "style" is Radiohead (on Kid A) - and Radiohead are hardly Krautrock, are they?
I suppose Kaputter Hamster and a few others have their Can "moments", but stylistically, most Krautrock bands I've heard seem to have more in common with psychedelia than "Classic" Prog Rock. Can have never played psychedelia - their music is too minimal and focussed on rhythm and ambient textures rather than "space rock" style riffs a la early Pink Floyd.
Can also used tape editing to achieve their final compositions rather than relying simply on extended jams. They produced extended jams, of course, but the finished results use composition and arrangement techniques that are born of academic study, yet sound convincingly free-form.
That is why Can are so different - but just a few listens to their music should tell you that!
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Abstrakt
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Joined: August 18 2005
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Posted: May 16 2006 at 14:41 |
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Can is krautrock, Faust is krautrock. They have quite different styless
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 17:26 |
Abstrakt wrote:
Can is krautrock, Faust is krautrock. They have quite different styless |
So David Hasselhoff is Krautrock?
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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eugene
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Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
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Posted: May 17 2006 at 18:04 |
Thanks for your explanation, Certif1ed, about difference between Can and Krautrock.
Sounds reasonable to me. I've had really enough of Can already, but always interested to learn something new. And Krautrock, as subgenre, looks so much better without Can. If only we could exclude Faust somehow from Krautrock, then I would gladly announce Krautrock amongst my favourite prog subgenres.
And I also like your opening statement: "I'm not into classifying...". It made me smile.
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carefulwiththataxe
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Abstrakt
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 02:22 |
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Can sounds like early breakbeat with krautrock influences to me
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 05:10 |
eugene wrote:
Thanks for your explanation, Certif1ed, about difference between Can and Krautrock.
Sounds reasonable to me. I've had really enough of Can already, but always interested to learn something new. And Krautrock, as subgenre, looks so much better without Can. If only we could exclude Faust somehow from Krautrock, then I would gladly announce Krautrock amongst my favourite prog subgenres.
And I also like your opening statement: "I'm not into classifying...". It made me smile.
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You're welcome 
Actually, you'll be pleased to hear that I don't really hear Faust as Krautrock either - their "style" is closer to Can's than, say, ADII.
I like Faust - and unlike Can (who I also like very much), they do rock, but the general approach they seem to have to music is through developing soundscapes - more akin to Tangerine Dream (who again, I don't hear as Krautrock).
Unless there are swathes of other Krautrock bands that I haven't heard who work in soundscapes rather than use rock structures almost straight out of late 1960's psychedelia, then I would suggest that these three are moved out of Krautrock.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 08:14 |
STOP BUGGING ME!!!
WHY DO YOU WASTE YOUR TIME COMPLAINING INSTEAD OF MAKING A OWN POLL!!!????
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 17:44 |
Certif1ed wrote:
eugene wrote:
Thanks for your explanation, Certif1ed, about difference between Can and Krautrock.
Sounds reasonable to me. I've had really enough of Can already, but always interested to learn something new. And Krautrock, as subgenre, looks so much better without Can. If only we could exclude Faust somehow from Krautrock, then I would gladly announce Krautrock amongst my favourite prog subgenres.
And I also like your opening statement: "I'm not into classifying...". It made me smile.
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You're welcome
Actually, you'll be pleased to hear that I don't really hear Faust as Krautrock either - their "style" is closer to Can's than, say, ADII.
I like Faust - and unlike Can (who I also like very much), they do rock, but the general approach they seem to have to music is through developing soundscapes - more akin to Tangerine Dream (who again, I don't hear as Krautrock).
Unless there are swathes of other Krautrock bands that I haven't heard who work in soundscapes rather than use rock structures almost straight out of late 1960's psychedelia, then I would suggest that these three are moved out of Krautrock.
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I love Krautrock (without Can and Faust- sic !) !!!
Edited by eugene - May 18 2006 at 18:30
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carefulwiththataxe
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eugene
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Location: Ukraine
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 17:52 |
Abstrakt wrote:
STOP BUGGING ME!!!
WHY DO YOU WASTE YOUR TIME COMPLAINING INSTEAD OF MAKING A OWN POLL!!!????
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You got it all wrong!
A very interesting discussion about what is and what is not Krautrock is taking place here, and same was provoked by your incorrect poll. Be proud about what you've done, even if it was wrong but turned out to be unintentionally good.
In any case take it easy 
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carefulwiththataxe
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DallasBryan
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Points: 3323
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 20:01 |
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very misleading POLL IMO!
this is like a list of the best 2nd rate bands from Germany, the famous KRAUTROCK DAYS(69-72) the ones the english speaking media keep trying to get us to swallow. you may want to look towards Annexus Quam, Michael Rother, Kraan, Schicke-Fuhrs&Froeling, Aera,etc and away from Faust(avant electronics), Novalis(english copycats) and Amon Duul 2(psychedelic experimentation). Go for the stuff that the germans listened too!
About the only thing worth listening to off that list is:
Dzyan - Electronic Silence(good)
Ash Ra Temple - first couple(Ashra, much better!)
Grobschnitt - Solar Music Live
Neu! - 75(try the best of Michael Rother)
Mythos - Dreamlab(OK)
Can - Tago Mago and the next 2(Holger Czukay's On the Way to the Peak of Normal, much better!)
-------------
oh well, we sold them David Hasselhof!
Edited by DallasBryan - May 18 2006 at 20:06
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VERS
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Joined: February 12 2006
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Posted: May 18 2006 at 22:12 |
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 01:48 |
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GÄA most be the most original band on the list
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Certif1ed
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 02:56 |
Abstrakt wrote:
STOP BUGGING ME!!!
WHY DO YOU WASTE YOUR TIME COMPLAINING INSTEAD OF MAKING A OWN POLL!!!????
[IMG]height=17 alt=Angry src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>[IMG]height=17 alt=Censored src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley35.gif" width=34 align=absMiddle>[IMG]height=17 alt="Evil Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
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I only see one person complaining here...
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Rocktopus
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Location: Norway
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 04:07 |
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There's atleast three experts with different opinons on who and
what is Krautrock in this discussion. I'm no expert, and there is a lot
of german prog I haven't heard yet.
I get that Novalis falls out of the genre, being (very good) copycats of english symphonic.
But if Kraut cannot sound like Can and not rock, or Amon Düül II
and lean towards psychedelic experimentation, or Faust (that made the
composition the term is taken from?) because they are avant
electronic?
Can Krautrock rock, or not?
Is Cluster Kraut? I always thought they were, but they don't really
rock either. I also thought Tangerine Dream OHR years were.
Sometimes using strict rules for a genre just doesn't work. When you
have genres like Kraut, Canterbury, Scandinavian or progg (Sweden) or
Italianprog, there will always be a combination of how it sounds, and
assosiation by geography.
The pre Tago Mago album Ege Bamyasi is my favorite by Can. I Thought it was a krautrock classic.
Can's 'Mother Sky' really rocks, doesn't it? And when Radiohead's Kid A
was new, there was a lot of talk about them being inspired by Can, Faust, Neu! and Krautrock in general.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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krusty
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1777
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 06:10 |
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David Hasselhoff
I mean Can.
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 11:28 |
here we go again... 
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 17:27 |
Certif1ed wrote:
eugene wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
On that list, Can -
but I wouldn't classify their music as Krautrock. Sure they are German,
but the music has almost nothing in common with Guru Guru, Neu, Faust
et al. |
Oh, that's a surprise for me. I always thought Can (along with
Faust) are number one of Krautrock. So how would you classify
their music then? |
I'm not into classifying, as I believe there are far too many
inconsistencies and inaccuracies with the way bands are classified as a
general rule.
It seems in many ways that Can's music is out on its own - possibly
due to the close influence of the composer Karlheinz Stockhausen on
Czukay and Schmidt (both were students under Stockhausen), and the
free-jazz drumming style of Liebezeit - in fact, the only band I've
ever heard come close to the Can "style" is Radiohead (on Kid A) - and
Radiohead are hardly Krautrock, are they?
I suppose Kaputter Hamster and a few others have their Can
"moments", but stylistically, most Krautrock bands I've heard seem to
have more in common with psychedelia than "Classic" Prog Rock. Can have
never played psychedelia - their music is too minimal and focussed on
rhythm and ambient textures rather than "space rock" style riffs a la
early Pink Floyd.
Can also used tape editing to achieve their final compositions
rather than relying simply on extended jams. They produced extended
jams, of course, but the finished results use composition and
arrangement techniques that are born of academic study, yet sound
convincingly free-form.
That is why Can are so different - but just a few listens to their music should tell you that!
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I don't agree with that at all; Can are VERY psychedelic. their
approach to music may be different from other Krautrock bands, but
minimalistic and psychedelic are NOT mutually exclusive. nor does being
a pupil of Stockhausen mean you are not psychedelic; in fact some work
of Stockhausen, like "Gesang der Jünglinge im Feuerofen", is in my
opinion very psychedelic too
Edited by BaldJean - May 19 2006 at 17:34
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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