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rockandrail View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 10:07
"Le Monde" is the most serious and respectable French newspaper, in the same vein as the London Times or the Washington Post. Therefore I do believe this the real letter.
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 10:23
^ Thanks for posting the letter, rockandrail.

I'll have to read it when I get home from work. I had no idea it had been published.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 16:53
This part caught my eye:

"How much longer can the world tolerate this situation? Where will this trend lead the world to? How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of some rulers? How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction – hunt the people of the world? How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be spilled on the streets, and people's houses destroyed over their heads? Are you pleased with the current condition of the world? Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace, mediation between disputing states and distinguishing the flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts were would the world be today? Would not your government, and people be justifiably proud? Would not your administration's political and economic standing have been stronger? And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing global hatred of the American governments?"

Very well said.

But I do not see a mention of us aethiests anywhere... monotheism yes, but not aetheism, oh well.

This letter read as very sincere and educated.  It's strange how this letter has only reached Le Monde, don't people care?


Edited by Geck0 - May 12 2006 at 15:16
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crimson thing View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 19:59
There was an edited version of the letter in the Grauniad today (thurs), & apparently the whole thing is on their website (guardian.co.uk/iran , I think).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 20:01
Grauniad?  I presume you mean Guardian?

I've always quite liked that paper.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 03:42
I cant imagine it being published in the US, although I may be wrong. The Guardian in the UK is one of the best newspapers I've ever read, but it's readership is significantly less than the Times or the Telegraph which are the dominant broadsheets in the UK. Both are quite right wing.

Any readers of these papers here? Was the letter published in either of them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 06:23
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

This part caught my eye:

"How much longer can the world tolerate this situation? Where will this trend lead the world to? How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of some rulers? How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction – hunt the people of the world? How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be spilled on the streets, and people's houses destroyed over their heads? Are you pleased with the current condition of the world? Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace, mediation between disputing states and distinguishing the flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts were would the world be today? Would not your government, and people be justifiably proud? Would not your administration's political and economic standing have been stronger? And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing global hatred of the American governments?"

 
Hardly the words of a fundamentalistic dictator hell bent on world destruction are they?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 07:45
He was 'alleged' to have called for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' though.

I dont know if this was ever confirmed. As far as I'm concerned he is no more untrustowrthy as Bush & Blair.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 08:00
Gecko - the Guardian has long been known as the Grauniad because of its one-time notoriety for printing errors. Smile
 
Which makes me wonder whether anyone actually has registered www.grauniad.co.uk (or .com) - would be a great address for a spoof paper, but I wouldn't be surprised if the real Guardian has registered it merely for protection. Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 08:06
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

The Guardian in the UK is one of the best newspapers I've ever read
 
Considering your left-wing views, I'm not at all surprised!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 10:58
Incidentally, I'm not sure why anyone seriously expected the letter in question to achieve anything. I can't think of any historical precedent for a letter from one sadly deluded religious nutter to another sadly deluded religious nutter having any practical effect.
 
Unless we, the citizens of the countries of the world, ensure that our leaders rely exclusively on facts, and not on hoary centuries-old superstitions, we can't expect any of them to take rational decisions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 12:45
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

He was 'alleged' to have called for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' though.

I dont know if this was ever confirmed. As far as I'm concerned he is no more untrustowrthy as Bush & Blair.

It wasn't alleged.
 
He said it, right in front of a banner that said "A World Without Zionism" - he's a typical Arab leader(King Abdullah excluded, hes a great guy) who are able to use Israel/USA/UK to turn attention away from their own failings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 12:56
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

He was 'alleged' to have called for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' though. I dont know if this was ever confirmed. As far as I'm concerned he is no more untrustowrthy as Bush & Blair.

It wasn't alleged.

 

He said it, right in front of a banner that said "A World Without Zionism" - he's a typical Arab leader(King Abdullah excluded, hes a great guy) who are able to use Israel/USA/UK to turn attention away from their own failings.


Ok. I didn't actually see that.

He certainly has failings, I'll not deny it, but I still regard him as no more of a threat than our own leaders.
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 15:19
The few times I've read The Guardian, I must say, it's the best paper.  I'm not one for right wing views, so The Telegraph and The Times would not suit my purpose.

I've yet to read The Guardian in its smaller, non-broadsheet form, do they still keep their integrity, as ever?

Thank you also for the note about why it's called the Grauniad.

Our local Newspaper is notorious for spelling and grammar mistakes, but I guess that is expected.
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crimson thing View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 17:28
Not sure, Gecko, how you define integrity in this instance.
 
Being an unreconstructed lefty, (I can hear the surprised gasps already Evil Smile ), the Grauniad is my paper of choice (used to be the Indie (Independent), but I felt it eventually became too addicted to being different for the heck of it). So naturally, I trust their reporting more (not necessarily logically), and their comment tends to chime with my own views. Whether that coincides with integrity, I couldn't really say.
 
However, their choice of paper size (in what I gather is now called "dead tree format" ) is irritating. Like the infamous description of the late actor with the unfortunate surname "Cunis", it is neither one thing nor the other.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2006 at 22:40
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

As far as I'm concerned he is no more untrustowrthy as Bush & Blair.


If only we could all be measured against such low standards. LOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2006 at 09:02
I'm rooting for Iran in this one.
Proggin' it up eight days a week...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2006 at 16:10
Originally posted by nursethisviper nursethisviper wrote:

I'm rooting for Iran in this one.
 
 
yea you and the neo-nazis.
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Blacksword View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 08:11
Discussions between permenant Security Council members, and Germany were held in London yesterday. Our media accidentally forgot to report it, I guess. Thankfully the stability of the ME, global security and the possibility of economic collapse is not really that important..


This article hi-lights the fact that there are big differences in opinion between the Moscow and Washington in the best way forward. Iran is insisting on it's right to a nuclear power program. The Russian idea of allowing the low level Uranium enrichment to take place in Russia, is still on the table, but may be rejected by Iran.

    London talks

Edited by Blacksword - May 25 2006 at 08:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2006 at 08:44
^ I wish people would at least stick to their opinions, even if they don't please other members. If everyone already knows what you think of something what's the point in hiding it anymore.
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