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Topic Closed"Fake" instruments v.s "real" instruments

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Poll Question: Do you think that a keyboard/synth makes "fake" music?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [2.94%]
5 [7.35%]
61 [89.71%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Jaydubz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 19:14
No...
"Music is the best." ~ FZ
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int_2375 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:05
I voted yes to be singled out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:15
I had an arguement with a friend about this. He saw nothing wrong with writing music on his own, but synthesizing the instruments on a MIDI notation software. I had a big problem with this.

However, in what we are talking about, there is nothing wrong with synth instruments as long as there is some sort of humanity in playing them or arranging them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:28
The notion is absurd.
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int_2375 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 22:32

Originally posted by Speakerfish Speakerfish wrote:

I had an arguement with a friend about this. He saw nothing wrong with writing music on his own, but synthesizing the instruments on a MIDI notation software. I had a big problem with this.

However, in what we are talking about, there is nothing wrong with synth instruments as long as there is some sort of humanity in playing them or arranging them.

What?  Whats your big problem with this?  If you don't like music made on a computer, don't listen to it.  Simple.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 22:44
On Meshuggah's album catch 33, the drums are faked. The "drums" on the album are actually an advanced drum machine called the drumset from hell. Of course tomas haake is able to play the material, they played a little over ten minutes of that album when i saw them live.
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Jaydubz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 23:03

Originally posted by Speakerfish Speakerfish wrote:

...but synthesizing the instruments on a MIDI notation software. I had a big problem with this.

I've heard plenty of terrible music played by "real musicians" on real instruments, and plenty of profoundly beautiful and emotional music executed using computers and/or synthesizers.  Zappa's '80s Synclavier pieces were done using the exact methodology you describe  - entering data via a (computer) keyboard note-for-note.  I've never been a big-fan of composing using a piano-roll editor; I've always strived to sequence by "playing" the data using some sort of controller (keyboard, windsynth or percussion pad) with a minimum of "post-work" to keep it a fluid as possible and avoiding a "stiff" feel. 

I've recently stumbled upon a "better mousetrap" for writing orchestral scores, though...software that allows you to compose as though you were sitting in front of a score, triggers super-high-quality samples of the London Symphony Orchestra recorded at Abbey Road, and sounds as fluid as if you'd played each part in with a controller.  Electronic Musician named it one of their "Products of the Year" for 2005...

http://www.notionmusic.com/

Zappa would've LOVED this software! 

 



Edited by Jaydubz
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2006 at 17:03
Do you think an electric guitar makes "Fake Music"????????????????LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2006 at 17:06
Originally posted by akin akin wrote:

Fake? Why? Just because the sound is not taken by the contact of two materials?
A synthesizer is like a piano, if the player press notes at random, there will be no music at all. But if they press it in a specific sequence, a masterpiece is made.

Fake for me is samples and remixes that pick a song already composed and played, insert some sounds and call it a new song.


 
My thoughts exactly Akin.
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wolf0621 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2006 at 18:22

"Fake" defined as being "unreal"? So if I called playing guitar lines on a synth using a guitar sound patch "playing the guitar" that would be fake, while actually playing those same lines on an actual guitar would be real? In those terms, a synth used to mimic or replicate another instrument's sound is fake...That doesn't make the actual playing fake, the person operating the synth really is playing an instrument, just not the one that it sounds like he's playing...

I take it that the connotation attached to the term "fake" in this thread is meant as derrogatory & I don't view it as such relative to synths. The talent involved is real, the technology used to project the sound is immaterial...

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2006 at 18:39
No, of course :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2006 at 19:41

Keyboards can add a world of depth to music. Listen to Camel's Docks/Beached combo on the Nude album and try to imagine it without the keyboards.

Not pretty.
 
Saying keyboards are fake is like saying the guitar is fake.
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goose View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2006 at 20:26
Originally posted by YYZed YYZed wrote:

Does a keyboard need a human being to operate it in real time? Yes. It is a "real" instrument.

Does a synthesiser need a human being to operate it in real time? No! Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2006 at 12:48
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by YYZed YYZed wrote:

Does a keyboard need a human being to operate it in real time? Yes. It is a "real" instrument.

Does a synthesiser need a human being to operate it in real time? No! Wink
 
This answer addresses a very specific implementation of synth, one in which the material is auto-programmed. Nevertheless, someone had to create what the synth later plays back. There's still musical knowledge & skill involved, even if it's not happening in "real time". I can see the argument though in calling this "fake", as it detracts from the live situation & spontanaety of the music...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2006 at 14:36
To paraphrase two of my favorite quotes from Live at Pompeii regarding their increasing use of synthesizers:

Gilmour: "It's all extensions of what's coming out of our heads"

Waters: "If you give a man a Les Paul guitar, he doesn't become Eric Clapton. If you give a man an amp and a synthesizer, he doesn't become whoever. He doesn't become us."
Pure Brilliance:
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Phil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2006 at 15:53
Thinking about keyboards, I don't agree that say the Mellotron or hammond make fake sounds - although originally they tried to imitate other sounds, they have a distinctive tone of their very own. But, I do find some synth sounds very artifical.
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