| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Raff 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
|
 Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:16 |
|
GG are not an easy listen, that's for sure. But isn't that what prog is about? If I were interested in catchy melodies, I would be spending money on high-charting records instead. Anyway, as Tony F. said, it's perfectly OK not to like bands. I'm no Dream Theater fan, and Genesis are far from my favourites ("Supper's Ready" does very little for me, I'm afraid) - but I don't see it as a problem. I just keep listening to what I like and trying other bands out.
|
 |
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:19 |
Only a few people responded in a belligerent manner, Peter. And this wasn't intended to be an offensive thread, but a provocative one. There is a difference, and most people noticed it.
I'm part of the group that doesn't believe in the inherent superiority of 70s' bands over 80s'/90s' ones. My preference of Spock's Beard is to illustrate this and no number of people who don't agree with me will change this preference. But I'd like to know just how outnumbered I am here  . |
|
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:26 |
 Ghost Rider wrote:
GG are not an easy listen, that's for sure. But isn't that what prog is about? If I were interested in catchy melodies, I would be spending money on high-charting records instead. Anyway, as Tony F. said, it's perfectly OK not to like bands. I'm no Dream Theater fan, and Genesis are far from my favourites ("Supper's Ready" does very little for me, I'm afraid) - but I don't see it as a problem. I just keep listening to what I like and trying other bands out. |
It's not about more vs less accessible - it's about complexity that fails vs simplicity that succeeds. Now, of course complexity doesn't always fail and simplicity doesn't always succeed - it's simply because one isn't inherently better than the other.
Soundspectrum: I believe Terra Australis wanted to say that GG sounds very coherent and their complexity is not jarring in any way; it doesn't really make itself heard.
Edited by Visitor13 - April 22 2006 at 13:28
|
|
M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:30 |
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO.
|
|
"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
|
|
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:33 |
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand".
|
|
M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:39 |
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand". |
Oh well... Facing this, all I can say is: forget about Gentle Giant, you'll probably never like'em.
By the way, there's a mistake here, since "Three Friends" was actually GG's third album. Thanks for your answer.
|
|
"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
|
|
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:41 |
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand". |
Oh well... Facing this, all I can say is: forget about Gentle Giant, you'll probably never like'em.
By the way, there's a mistake here, since "Three Friends" was actually GG's third album. Thanks for your answer. |
You've misunderstood me - I meant the first four albums you had mentioned - Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool". And it's not like they don't have their moments - but on the whole they simply don't convince me.
|
|
M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 13:48 |
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
I'm just curious: did you listen carefully to all GG's albums? In case you didn't listen to their entire catalogue, which albums you have listened to?
Please note: I'm not saying that someone must listen to a band's entire catalogue to form an opinion about their music, I just want to know if you gave a good listen to "Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool", "Interview", "Three Friends" and "Free Hand", which are GG's finest albums IMHO. |
I listened to the first four and am familiar with some songs from "Three Friends" and "Free Hand". |
Oh well... Facing this, all I can say is: forget about Gentle Giant, you'll probably never like'em.
By the way, there's a mistake here, since "Three Friends" was actually GG's third album. Thanks for your answer. |
You've misunderstood me - I meant the first four albums you had mentioned - Acquiring the Taste", "In a Glass House", "Octopus", "Live - Playing the Fool". And it's not like they don't have their moments - but on the whole they simply don't convince me. |
OK, I think that we all know bands that eveyibody seems to like - everybody except ouselves! E.g., I do not like Supertramp - I gave them a good try, as you did with Gentle Giant, listening to all albums from the first to "Paris", and gave up - they're not my style.
|
|
"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
|
|
RaphaelT
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1453
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 14:51 |
Visitor13, you have your just right not to like Gentle Giant, although they were greater showmen than EL&P.
GhostRider, I haven't meet on charts a track with a tune as catchy as anything from Free Hand, to say nothing about Peter Hammill and VDGG.
And proggers can write catchy tunes, and great radio friendly singles, take for instance "Walking On Air" by KC
|
|
yet you still have time!
|
|
MustShaveBeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 366
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 14:57 |
GG hAv lyk n0 20 MynUt ePyKs! EEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!
Edited by MustShaveBeard - April 22 2006 at 14:58
|
|
Your life or your lupins!!!
|
|
Tenth Chaffinch
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 22 2006
Location: Singapore
Status: Offline
Points: 203
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 21:30 |
Gentle Giant may not have the best vocals, but their instrumental prowess cannot be denied. In fact, I believe Phil Shulman had a lot to offer the band vocally and I always felt his vocals in songs like "Think Of Me With Kindness" and "Peel The Paint" were superb.
Gentle Giant is a band that is mainly directed at the obtuse-minded and (though I hate to say it) musical elitists.
I am a huge fan of the band, I can respect almost everything they ever put out (though Giant for A Day and Civilian are, in my opinion, weak efforts). I stand by the musicianship and spectacular compositional structures that have made Gentle Giant one of the most wonderful hidden treasures in all of progressive music.
|
|
www.myspace.com/fatherunderground
|
|
Guests
Forum Guest Group
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 21:47 |
|
The fact that you like spocks beard and you don't like gentle giant proves you aren't all there :P. I think a beginner should avoid Octopus and the debut album at the start. Go out and buy Power and the glory, Three friends, In a glass house and Freehand. That's a great start ;)
|
|
Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
|
Posted: April 22 2006 at 23:56 |
Peter Rideout wrote:
(There are artists I don't like as well, but I don't really feel any need to list them, or ask for validation or approbation of my feelings.  )
|
No, you're usually good about not naming names, but you _do_ indulge in some lighthearted fun at Prog Metal's expense... 
As far as GG goes, it's been a long, slow road to appreciation of them
for me, but I _definitely_ do now. They were certainly fairly unique in
their overall approach and sound, although I do find them to repeat
some of their themes from time to time (but what band doesn't,
really?).
Certain albums are also more accessible than others. For example, I was
quite taken with about 3/4 of Octopus from the first moment I heard it.
I've had The Power And The Glory now for several months now, and I'm
finding that album to be more of a "creeper".
Edited by Empathy - April 23 2006 at 00:02
|
Pure Brilliance:
|
|
Zoso
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 501
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 00:03 |
robertplantowns wrote:
No
|
|
|
|
|
Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 02:58 |
RaphaelT wrote:
GhostRider, I haven't meet on charts a track with a tune as catchy as anything from Free Hand, to say nothing about Peter Hammill and VDGG.
And proggers can write catchy tunes, and great radio friendly singles, take for instance "Walking On Air" by KC |
You're absolutely right. I stand corrected. However, I think one's notion of "catchy" varies from person to person. Catchy prog songs would probably not be considered such by those who listen to commercial pop. For instance, I find Camel's "Never Let Go" and Hatfield and the North's "Share It" very catchy, but I don't see them replacing anything by Anastacia or Madonna in the charts.
|
|
RaphaelT
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1453
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 04:31 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
RaphaelT wrote:
GhostRider, I haven't meet on charts a track with a tune as catchy as anything from Free Hand, to say nothing about Peter Hammill and VDGG.
And proggers can write catchy tunes, and great radio friendly singles, take for instance "Walking On Air" by KC |
You're absolutely right. I stand corrected. However, I think one's notion of "catchy" varies from person to person. Catchy prog songs would probably not be considered such by those who listen to commercial pop. For instance, I find Camel's "Never Let Go" and Hatfield and the North's "Share It" very catchy, but I don't see them replacing anything by Anastacia or Madonna in the charts. |
You are absolutely right that the idea of "catchy" tune depends on personal taste. However, most people tend to dance to a tune which they know from TV or radio, slow sentimental tunes or dance loopa are always considered as catchy though.
It would be nice to be a DJ at a party once and present people with slow songs such as "Man-Erg" 
|
|
yet you still have time!
|
|
Hierophant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 651
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 05:24 |
|
Gentle Giant's thing is complex layering, dissonance, and
counter-point. To the untrained ear it may just sound like "quirky
rhythms" but there is so many things happening on several different
levels, that it's impossible to "get it" on the first, second, or even
tenth listen. It takes serious time, and effort on the listeners part
if you want to enjoy GG.
Understand where they are coming from musically - to be
challenging to the listener but at the same time musical, and
beautiful. For me GG is one of the easier bands to get into, they have
nothing on some of the RIO nut-jobs (cow,zappa,art zoyd etc).
|
|
|
|
R o V e R
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 2747
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 06:03 |
Visitor13 wrote:
They're excellent instrumentalists, but rarely write a decent tune. They're boring and lack inspiration. Their vocals are cheesy - I'd be able to cope with them if the songs were excellent, but they're not.
I'm aware that they are one of the most compositionally and instrumentally advanced bands in the archives. Well, it counts for nothing if you can't infuse your musical knowledge and capabilities with life. And GG rarely could bring a vibrant energy to their compositions, IMO. The impressive level of sophistication these compositions achieve doesn't make up for it. A shame really, since the concept behind the music is wonderful - only the execution is half of what it should be.
On the whole, I like Spock's Beard more. They're not as complex and much more poppy. And maybe this is why I find them better - because they're simpler they're more catchy. And they stay catchy, as well, while Gentle Giant stay average. A case of less is more.
Does anyone else agree with me?
|
Not Agree
You are unfortunate,
That you don’t like it.
I find Gentle Giant very catchy,
And they wrote lot of decent tunes.
For example.
Decent tunes
Wreck
Mister Class And Quality?
Three Friends
Think Of Me With Kindness
Catchy tunes
Proclamation
A Cry For Everyone
Freehand
The Boys In The Band
Simpler tunes
Acquiring The Taste
Isn't It Quiet And Cold?
Raconteur Troubadour
Edited by R o V e R - April 23 2006 at 06:06
|
|
richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29285
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 07:35 |
|
There is an element of 'The Emperors New Clothes' about GG.You feel you have to like them.Personally my biggest problem is that they don't use bombast.They also seem to go for 'fiddly' all the time.Too subtle perhaps for heathens like me??! Still I'll persevere and maybe one day I can be part of this 'secret society' of Gentle Giant worshippers!
|
|
The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
|
Posted: April 23 2006 at 11:11 |
Visitor13 wrote:
glass house wrote:
You just wait when trouserpress hears of this [IMG]height=17 alt=LOL src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> [IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> . |
He's gonna have to catch me first[IMG]height=17 alt=Tongue src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>. |
Consider yourself caught.
Gentle Giant aren't everyone's cuppa tea. No prog music is. In fact, no music of any kind is, and often what one person sees as strengths another will consider a weakness. So whilst I revel in the complexity and sheer AMOUNT of intertwining melodies, harmonies and phrases that make up an average Gentle Giant song a lot of people find it offputting.
That said, there are some things you said in your first post that I just can't agree with at all.
"They lack inspiration". This is clearly rubbish. Their music may not be to your tastes, but it is so unique that I just cannot even begin to understand how you can claim it lacks inspiration.
"They rarely bring a level of vibrant energy to their music". Uhhhm... excuse me? Have you heard Knots? Free Hand? Peel the Paint? They had energy bursting out of every pore! Listen to the official live album and tell me they lack energy. You'll have to admit defeat on that one.
And in another post you said you knew what their music was "saying". Firstly I'd contest that, as I've listened to them obsessively for years and wouldn't have the confidence to say I know what half their songs are about and secondly, DOES IT REMOTELY MATTER WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IF IT SOUNDS GOOD?
You're entitled to your opinions of course, but you've made some very sweeping statements in your posts which give me the impression that you don't know GG's music anywhere near as well as you claim to.
Edit: Excuse the sloppy quoting. I'm using a Mac. Macs scare me.
Edited by Trouserpress - April 23 2006 at 11:13
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
I don't like Gentle Giant
