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Guitar Garden 
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Joined: April 17 2006
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 Topic: Early hard rock...and prog
Posted: April 17 2006 at 21:47 |
This is a great site, but I'm seeing a lack of historical dues being paid to early heavy-rock bands that strayed into prog from time to time. Cream was a psychedelic band, but various tracks on "Disraeli Gears" could be placed in the proto-prog category, such as "We're Going Wrong." Certainly, lots of early prog guitarists, like Fripp, Gilmour and Hackett, listened to Clapton (ESPECIALLY Gilmour).
There's also the track "Theme from an Imaginary Western," written by Jack Bruce and later cover by Mountain, who did a VERY proggy version with lots of atmospheric Hammond work from Felix Pappalardi. This is absolutely a progressive-rock track.
Also Kansas--"Song for America" and many of their other tracks from 1973 onward. Also, various tracks from Utopia, Styx, and even Led Zeppelin--"Gallows Pole," "Battle of Evermore," "Stairway," "Kashmir" and "Achilles Last Stand" come to mind.
Thoughts?
--Pete
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Bern
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Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Québec
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Posted: April 17 2006 at 22:10 |
I kinda agree with you but you'll learn that on this website, no «true-prog» band goes unpunished. There are a lot of people who will die if there are some historical bands on the archives.  For some reason, if this site contains any band that is not a fully accomplished prog band, everybody wants this band out. I don't know what it can change in someone's life that the Beatles are in the archives but you should have seen the war that their arrival started  Anyway, we'll see what happens... BTW, Welcome to the forums! 
Edited by Bern
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RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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Guitar Garden
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Joined: April 17 2006
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Posted: April 17 2006 at 22:12 |
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Gee, I'm glad I didn't mention Walter Murphy's disco-prog hit, "Fifth of Beethoven." ;)
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ClemofNazareth
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Joined: August 17 2005
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Posted: April 17 2006 at 22:28 |
 Guitar Garden wrote:
Gee, I'm glad I didn't mention Walter Murphy's disco-prog hit, "Fifth of Beethoven." ;) |
Yeah, but "Roll Over Beethoven" is here!
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus
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Barla
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 13 2006
Location: Argentina
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Points: 4309
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Posted: April 17 2006 at 22:39 |
Guitar Garden wrote:
This is a great site, but I'm seeing a lack of historical dues being paid to early heavy-rock bands that strayed into prog from time to time. Cream was a psychedelic band, but various tracks on "Disraeli Gears" could be placed in the proto-prog category, such as "We're Going Wrong." Certainly, lots of early prog guitarists, like Fripp, Gilmour and Hackett, listened to Clapton (ESPECIALLY Gilmour).
There's also the track "Theme from an Imaginary Western," written by Jack Bruce and later cover by Mountain, who did a VERY proggy version with lots of atmospheric Hammond work from Felix Pappalardi. This is absolutely a progressive-rock track.
Also Kansas--"Song for America" and many of their other tracks from 1973 onward. Also, various tracks from Utopia, Styx, and even Led Zeppelin--"Gallows Pole," "Battle of Evermore," "Stairway," "Kashmir" and "Achilles Last Stand" come to mind.
Thoughts?
--Pete
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Yes, it's true. Some stuffs of Cream; and the old stuffs one of Zeppelin can be considerated prog "Dazed and Confused", "Stairway", "Heartbraker", "How many more times", "Kashmir", "Since I've been loving you". And more prog if you listen Zeppelin's live albums, with the 25 minutes version of "Dazed and confused" and infinite jamming thruogh the concerts, that's prog (I think it sould be proto prog because it's not a total prog band) ...
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wolf0621
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 07 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 11:42 |
Barla wrote:
Guitar Garden wrote:
This is a great site, but I'm seeing a lack of historical dues being paid to early heavy-rock bands that strayed into prog from time to time. Cream was a psychedelic band, but various tracks on "Disraeli Gears" could be placed in the proto-prog category, such as "We're Going Wrong." Certainly, lots of early prog guitarists, like Fripp, Gilmour and Hackett, listened to Clapton (ESPECIALLY Gilmour).
There's also the track "Theme from an Imaginary Western," written by Jack Bruce and later cover by Mountain, who did a VERY proggy version with lots of atmospheric Hammond work from Felix Pappalardi. This is absolutely a progressive-rock track.
Also Kansas--"Song for America" and many of their other tracks from 1973 onward. Also, various tracks from Utopia, Styx, and even Led Zeppelin--"Gallows Pole," "Battle of Evermore," "Stairway," "Kashmir" and "Achilles Last Stand" come to mind.
Thoughts?
--Pete
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Yes, it's true. Some stuffs of Cream; and the old stuffs one of Zeppelin can be considerated prog "Dazed and Confused", "Stairway", "Heartbraker", "How many more times", "Kashmir", "Since I've been loving you". And more prog if you listen Zeppelin's live albums, with the 25 minutes version of "Dazed and confused" and infinite jamming thruogh the concerts, that's prog (I think it sould be proto prog because it's not a total prog band) ... |
Yeah, and the Who's rock operas (Quadrophenia & Tommy) & A Quick One, early Queen albums, The Pretty Things' SF Sorrow, The Kinks' late 60's/early 70's concept albums, Spirit (Dr. Sardonicus anyone?)...And that's not to mention some harder-to-pin-down influences such as Bluegrass & the masters of "non-linear" blues such as Hubert Sumlin & Howlin' Wolf...
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salmacis
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Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
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Points: 3928
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 15:15 |
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I think Cream have a case for inclusion under 'proto prog'. They took musicianship within rock to the highest level yet heard in the 60s. I'd have put Cream in there with Spirit, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane and Love- those should all be here imo, as you can hear significant elements of their music in subsequent prog bands.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 18:05 |
Guitar Garden wrote:
Gee, I'm glad I didn't mention Walter Murphy's disco-prog hit, "Fifth of Beethoven." ;) |
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
Ivan would love that.....
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 19:16 |
Guitar garden wrote:
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This is a great site, but I'm seeing a lack of historical dues being paid to early heavy-rock bands that strayed into prog from time to time. Cream was a psychedelic band, but various tracks on "Disraeli Gears" could be placed in the proto-prog category, such as "We're Going Wrong." Certainly, lots of early prog guitarists, like Fripp, Gilmour and Hackett, listened to Clapton (ESPECIALLY Gilmour).
I believe already we have many hard rock bands related to Prog, with Deep Purple (Not Prog) and Uriah Heep (really prog), I'm sure Led Zeppelin will join sooner or later and Mountain is in the waiting list (This last one is going way too far if you ask me).
This is a Prog site, not an almost Prog; whatever came before Prog or what Proggers heard when young.
Clapton was not Prog, is not Prog', and never will have any remote relation with Prog, he's a Rock/Blues/POP musician (At least he recieved a couple of Grammys for best Pop performance).
Lots of prog musicians listened Eric Clapton.........And what?
Lots of Prog musicians listened Chuck, Berry, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones, Herman Hermits, and that's not enough reason to include none of the above mentioned musicians, despite how much they did for Rock.
Everybody wants to add the band they love, please Prog is not an award, you're a Prog musician or you're not a Prog musician, you don't win a Prog award, you play prog music.
There's also the track "Theme from an Imaginary Western," written by Jack Bruce and later cover by Mountain, who did a VERY proggy version with lots of atmospheric Hammond work from Felix Pappalardi. This is absolutely a progressive-rock track.
Mountain is one of my favorite bands, and of course they played Cream's music and sounded like them, being that Felix Pappalardi was Cream's producer, but they have as much relation with Prog as ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd (Who claimed that Cream was their main influence).
BTW: If I'm not wrong, Pappalardi never played the Hammond on "Theme from an Imaginary Western", this song is from the album Climbing! where STEVE KNIGHT played the Organ and Mellotron, while Felix Pappalardi played Bass, rhythm guitar and a few piano sections.
Also Kansas--"Song for America" and many of their other tracks from 1973 onward.
Kansas is a Symphonic band (Just added from Art Rock to symphonic by our team, due to their main structure) If you use the search function, you will find at least 10 or 20 Kansas threads.
Also, various tracks from Utopia: Believe Utopia is here, not sure though and can't reach the main page from this PC I don't know why.
Styx:
STYX is in Prog related in this site, BTW I wrote their bio, despite they turned into an AOR band after a light proggy beginning.
Led Zeppelin: "Gallows Pole," "Battle of Evermore," "Stairway," "Kashmir" and "Achilles Last Stand" come to mind.
Led Zeppelin will be added sooner or later probably in Proto Prog or Prog Related, and I agree they deserve to, my only problem is that they will be added to a Sub Genre that is a synonim of light Prog and they are already icons of Hard Rock and early Metal.
Thoughts?
What else do you ask? Cream? No way, they not remotely Prog.
Mountain? A bit closer, they are in the waiting list for months and probably will never be added (I hope). Not every Hard Rock band that used a Hammond and/or Mellotron is Prog.
Iván
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 19:31 |
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OMG, when will we have genre by album? It's about time!
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Posted: April 21 2006 at 22:28 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Guitar garden wrote:
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This is a great site, but I'm seeing a lack of historical dues being
paid to early heavy-rock bands that strayed into prog from time to
time. Cream was a psychedelic band, but various tracks on "Disraeli
Gears" could be placed in the proto-prog category, such as "We're Going
Wrong." Certainly, lots of early prog guitarists, like Fripp,
Gilmour and Hackett, listened to Clapton (ESPECIALLY Gilmour).
I believe already we have many hard
rock bands related to Prog, with Deep Purple (Not Prog) and Uriah
Heep (really prog), I'm sure Led Zeppelin will join sooner or later and
Mountain is in the waiting list (This last one is going way too far if
you ask me).
Deep Purple not prog?.... Bah!!!!
This is a Prog site, not an almost Prog; whatever came before Prog or what Proggers heard when young.
Amen Brother!!!!
Clapton was not Prog, is not Prog',
and never will have any remote relation with Prog, he's a
Rock/Blues/POP musician (At least he recieved a couple of Grammys for
best Pop performance).
Lots of prog musicians listened Eric Clapton.........And what?
Lots of Prog musicians
listened Chuck, Berry, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, The Rolling
Stones, Herman Hermits, and that's not enough reason to include none of
the above mentioned musicians, despite how much they did for Rock.
Everybody wants to add the band they
love, please Prog is not an award, you're a Prog musician or
you're not a Prog musician, you don't win a Prog award, you play prog
music.
Hallelujah Brother!!!
There's also the track "Theme from an Imaginary Western," written
by Jack Bruce and later cover by Mountain, who did a VERY proggy
version with lots of atmospheric Hammond work from Felix Pappalardi.
This is absolutely a progressive-rock track.
Mountain is one of my favorite
bands, and of course they played Cream's music and
sounded like them, being that Felix Pappalardi was Cream's
producer, but they have as much relation with Prog as ZZ Top or Lynyrd
Skynyrd (Who claimed that Cream was their main influence).
BTW: If I'm not wrong, Pappalardi
never played the Hammond on "Theme from an Imaginary Western", this
song is from the album Climbing! where STEVE KNIGHT played the Organ and Mellotron, while Felix Pappalardi played Bass, rhythm guitar and a few piano sections.
Also Kansas--"Song for America" and many of their other tracks from 1973 onward.
Kansas is a Symphonic band (Just
added from Art Rock to symphonic by our team, due to their main
structure) If you use the search function, you will find at least 10 or
20 Kansas threads.
Also, various tracks from Utopia: Believe Utopia is here, not sure though and can't reach the main page from this PC I don't know why.
Styx:
STYX is in Prog related in
this site, BTW I wrote their bio, despite they turned into an AOR band
after a light proggy beginning.
Led Zeppelin: "Gallows Pole," "Battle of Evermore," "Stairway," "Kashmir" and "Achilles Last Stand" come to mind.
Led Zeppelin will be added
sooner or later probably in Proto Prog or Prog Related, and I
agree they deserve to, my only problem is that they will be added to a
Sub Genre that is a synonim of light Prog and they are already icons of
Hard Rock and early Metal.
hmm.... interesting.. Zeppelin-Yes... and a No to
Deep Purple. Don't see the reasoning behind that. How does
adding some prog elements make a band prog related.... they are icons
of Hard Rock and early Metal... because they were... they were not prog
related. I don't see any of the artistic leanings and
inclanations that other prog groups.. including early Deep Purple had,
not to mention many that are listed under prog-related had as well.
Zeppelin did use some prog elements.... so have MANY groups... are we
to include them as well. Hmmm.... I may go down with the ship
hahahahh but I guess I'm STRONGLY against their inclusion.
Thoughts?
What else do you ask? Cream? No way, they not remotely Prog.
Mountain? A bit closer, they
are in the waiting list for months and probably will never be added (I
hope). Not every Hard Rock band that used a Hammond and/or
Mellotron is Prog.
my point....exactly from above... prog elements
do not make it prog.. and don't even make it prog-related in my book...
for what it's worth of course hahahahh and will add the Cream and
Zeppelin are very closely related.... blues orientated rock with a love
of extended instrumental exhibitions.. a no for one... is probably a no
for the other.
Iván
Micky
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Early hard rock...and prog
