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Topic ClosedDid Sesame Street kill Prog ?

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Thyme Traveler View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Did Sesame Street kill Prog ?
    Posted: April 07 2006 at 21:43

I'm not sure if "Non-music prog lounge"  is the right place for this, so if an admin moves it, it won't hurt my feelings. But at least leave a link so I can "keep up" with it.

Anyway, it's a well known fact that much of our conditioning, our programming if you will, happens before we reach our 5th birthday. Sesame Street was a revolutionary show for many reasons- the main one being that it was the first show which kept each "skit" or segment at no longer than 3 minutes, 5 tops. The reasoning was that some(not all but some) children just couldn't keep their attention for longer than that.

Sesame Street aired its first show in 1969. So the first generation of Sesame Street watchers were born between 1965-1972. I was born in 1969 so I am in this "generation." Many of my generation started to listen to popular music in the late 70's early 80's. Maybe we were conditioned in our early years to take our information in short bursts.

Many of the kiddie shows (or perhaps more importantly non-TV forms of entertainment) that those who were prog fans in the 70's were into as young children were like "prog" slower developing but deeper in meaning. So while previous generations were conditioned to believe that things didn't have to happen quickly to have meaning, my generation(and future ones for that matter) have been conditioned that if a song takes more than 4 or 5 minutes, we should move on to the next one.

Just a thought. I'm perhaps different because my parents always forced  me (and my sisters) to listen to classical music, so I learned to appreciate the fact that a longer more developed piece of music could be enjoyedjust as much if not more than a quick 3 minute song.

Fire up the flux capacitor ! We're taking this Delorean through all four dimensions.

What is the future of prog ? Genesis reunion ? I'm not telling!That could upset the thyme/space continuum.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2006 at 21:53

Then MTV came along and gave everyone the attention span of a gerbil.

 

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2006 at 21:58
Logical deduction (sic)... anyone unable to listen to a song that lasts more than 3 minutes is still a child.
Guigo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2006 at 22:17
 Gerbil.. hehe.  Well in the earliest days videos were much like songs. They were cohesive for all of their 3 to 5 minutes. sometime in the late 80's or early 90's the newer style of video started really destroying attention span by being disjointed hodgpodges of rapidly flashing random images.

 Im in that S st first generation I guess since I was born in '70 but I never really liked it. In some way it alwasy seemed like it was for babies to me. Even when I was 4. I'm a capt Kangaroo kid all the way. Lol ping pong balls still make me laugh. My parents were not forcefull with anything but my dad was a huge music nut and I heard 50-60's style rock and lot's of jazz in my formative years. Some of those Jazz things just kinda meander on forever so I guess I was conditioned for longer musical attention that way.

 I'm not sure that eldar generation that came up on howdy doody was really gaining anything of deeper meaning than we wouldve got for watching S street. In fact from what I could tell by watching a few of those older style kid shows we really got the better end of the stick. They were simply entertainment shows with littel or know educational value. At least we were conditioned to learn, and always be expectant to learn something new right around the corner. Also don't forget that the proverbial 3 minute song was born in a time when the people making them had been conditoned or programmed by " slower devolping deeper meaning" type things. Think of those 50's rock, country,jazz pop tunes. No 6 hour magic flute music there!



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 10:28
More so MTV than Sesame Street.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:11
I dunno, the Count counted pretty slow...



One ah ah ah, Two ah ah ah, Tree ah ah ah, Four ah ah ah, Five ah ah ah, Six ah ah ah, Sewen ah ah ah...and so on...
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:25
Yeah, he's very prog 



But MTV have most of the fault IMO and their stupids reality shows.


Edited by Viajero Astral
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:29
I'm not sure whether tv / radio programs have a great influence on musical interest. Recently I read about a study that most musical interest start at age 14-18. Mostly initiated by scarcely heard on radio (1975-1980) and inspiring by friends. The study concluded that musical interest doesn't change much over the years. In my case, for instance, I still like music I bought at age 16-18. After discovering this site I came to the conclusion that I've missed 15 years of music. Just because it wasn't played on radio stations. Thanks to the internet and sites like those real music has better chance to spread than ever before.

Commercial music sucks.


Herman H.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:38
I don't know about any of that.  I was born in 1976 and "came of age" when Def Leppard and Poison were the two hottest rock acts in the country.  When I got into metal, I was amazed at bands such as Metallica who would play a song that was over 8:00.

With time and maturity, my tastes changed quite a bit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2006 at 16:13

The two and a half minute song was pretty standard in the 50's and 60's. Way before Sesame Street.

But MTV has turned everyone into an idiot. Teachers can't lecture more than 12 to 15 minutes without doing something different. Otherwise they loose students' attention. The students are ready for a commercial. TV has programmed them to expect it.

“Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.”

~Jack Kerouac
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 01:50

I'm born in 67, raised on Sesame Street, and love long detailed music. I don't agree with your observations at all. If anything, our generation is the last to actually have distance of thought. Many shots have already been made at MTV, which is correct, it's the children of the eighties which fall into the short attention span generation.

The seventies was a much simpler time, no computers and less TV. The idea of introspective thought and creativity was still an understandable concept. In short, the world was still REAL.

In todays hyper commercial, techno mad society, introspective contemplation is little more than a foreign concept.

Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 14:14
You may be on to something with the Sesame Street Angle.  It's rumored that Oscar the Grouch is the American equivalent of Harold the Barrel.  Just a thought.
"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 14:29
^ elaborate. I think you started that rumour, right when you posted it.
The only similarities I see are the structure of their names and that they're
both atypical characters...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 14:45
I will blame the post-punks...not for the 70, because that was going to happen sooner or latter. I mean, although I dont like punk I can understand bands like the Sex Pistols and the Clash...at least they were really punk...and there are some songs that are...not that bad hehehe
But the generations that came after them, having heard them and knowing that its not necesary to know how to play an instrument to make music really begun to make the sh*tty music we have today. An even other bands that maybe didn´t like punk that much became so much simplier and less interesting and so much more comercial...the ´80 really were the nuclear bomb...and until now we are breathing the radiation...And what is even funnier is that the genre that died at the end was not prog, but punk...because the minute you try to change punk it pretty much stops being it...bands like the Offspring, Green Day, Blink 182 cant be called punk, but pop´punk (and wasn´t punk agains pop in the first place?), they make this very accesible music, very simple, not very inteligent music that talks about...what? Does it talk about something? yes, maybe...about highschool crushes...is that punk? Wasn´t punk about anarchy and social revolutions?...not now!!! Now it´s about this girl I really like in my chemestry class!!! And of course, where can we find this music? MTV!!!...So now music is simple, but not punk...even "metal" bands took punk as a friend...shame on them, and what came out? Hardcore and Nü metal...Limb Bizkit, Linkin Park...no man...what a shame on metal...But again it´s not the fault of the punks...it´s the stupid post-punk generation that are too stupid and too lazy to sitt down, learn how to play an instrument and play something interesting...not the same song other bands have been playing for the last 20 years...Hey, Im not saying they should all play prog! Not at all, prog really isn´t for everyone...but what about hard rock? Psichodelia? Folk? Industrial? They all have great posibilitys...but no...lets not do that, lets focus all our energy in the singer and how he looks...

So, after all, for me it´s all the post-punk generation that really didn´t bother to search other music styles, learn how to play their instruments and try new things...
"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 14:51
Another thing...the other day I though...that if aliens are watching us and learning about us and our behaviour, they must really be amazed that the "best" or more "evolutionalized" music, such as prog, isn´t what people think of as best music...but instead its...the Pussydoll cats or...I dont know, other sh*t like Jenifer Lopez...hehhehehe think about it. If we really are intelligent beings...why is the stupidest music the favorite???
"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 17:36

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

Another thing...the other day I though...that if aliens are watching us and learning about us and our behaviour, they must really be amazed that the "best" or more "evolutionalized" music, such as prog, isn´t what people think of as best music...but instead its...the Pussydoll cats or...I dont know, other sh*t like Jenifer Lopez...hehhehehe think about it. If we really are intelligent beings...why is the stupidest music the favorite???

LMAO.  "evolutionalized?"  Oh come on, your being completely pretentious.  Sure, YOU like prog, and I like prog, but different people look for different things in music.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 17:41
Originally posted by Witchwoodhermit Witchwoodhermit wrote:

I'm born in 67, raised on Sesame Street, and love long detailed music. I don't agree with your observations at all. If anything, our generation is the last to actually have distance of thought. Many shots have already been made at MTV, which is correct, it's the children of the eighties which fall into the short attention span generation.

The seventies was a much simpler time, no computers and less TV. The idea of introspective thought and creativity was still an understandable concept. In short, the world was still REAL.

In todays hyper commercial, techno mad society, introspective contemplation is little more than a foreign concept.

On the contrary, I think the internet has done a lot of good.  TV, IMO, is a mass-conditioning tool, but with the advent of the internet, we have access to information, and are free to interpret it as we choose.  It encourages introspective decisions.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 17:58
^
agreed. The internet (made possible by computers) is massively positive.
The information people have access now too is monumental. Never have
the masses been so well informed in a number of ways. Students,
consumers, parents, businesses, you name it all have reaped impressive
information gains from the internet.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2006 at 18:18

Forget Sesame Street.  MTV is the demon that poisoned rock and pop music.  It gave money/publicity/record deals to fashion idiots and posers and tried to make them look like musicians.  Culture Club, Madonna, Thompson Twins, NSYNC, Vanilla Ice, crap like that.  The recording industry has never been the same since.  Musical talent isn't what counts any more, it's looks and image.  If you can't look good or trendy in front of a camera, forget it. 



Edited by Flip_Stone
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2006 at 01:19
el bothy, I don't think you know what Post-Punk is. A lot of Post-Punk bands were MUCH more experimental, exciting, and interesting than Prog bands on the late-70s and early 80s, not to say I prefer one to the other though. There are great bands and likewise not-so-great bands in eacg genre.
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

-Merleau-Ponty
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