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Fritha 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 10 2005
Location: Finland
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Points: 471
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 Posted: April 09 2006 at 11:31 |
Honestly, unless I had read so many negative opinions concerning Hammill's voice on forums like this one, I would never have realised that it is an acquired taste for so many! From the start I found his voice to have a wonderful tone to it and even the "vicious" side of it never bothered me in the least -geee, weren't most of us raised on a healthy diet of idiosyncratic rock voices, after all?! I mean, there are not that many Greg Lakes out there in the field of rock music... Peter Hammill's voice certainly doesn't seem all that radical to me, but hey, different strokes and all that. Perhaps me starting my prog journey with Rush kinda honed my ears to be open to pretty much everything in terms of vocals! 
What do I see in VdGG? A lot of dynamics, range and emotion. Also, the music is very visual -it would be a blast to direct music videos or some arty short movies to it! Or to use it as an inspirational tool to paintings, for example (now I've given myself an idea!). But really, I just prefer to get lost in it, and in fact I was just getting lost in "H To He..." when I spotted this thread.
Edited by Fritha
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I was made to love magic
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 11:39 |
 BaldFriede wrote:
Well, this melodramatic and bombastic style is exactly what I love
about him. It helps to know that this is all tongue in cheek; Hammill
doesn't take himself seriously (that guy is full of humour, in fact).
Van der Graaf Generator are a funny band (shocking revelation), and
this over the top singing is a mockery (as are the dark lyrics, by the
way). You should have watched the long interview with Peter Hammill
that was online for a while; I'm not sure if it still is but can look
it up. But, as with all good comedians, there is some truth in all this
too; it is mockery, yes, but with meaning. The only really "dark" album of VdGG or PH is PH's solo album
"Over", and even here you will find some self-irony (just look at the
lyrics of "Crying Wolf").
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So that explains the lyrics in Killer...
Peter Hamill's vocals was the first thing I noticed the first time I
heard them and that strangness of his voice is the thing that dragged
me into the dark music of VDGG. I didn't liked Godbluff the first times
I heard it ,except The sleepwalkers, but when I got Pawn Hearts I
started liking the band more (the wierder the better!).
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 12:50 |
It seems lots of those who do not like VDGG got the courage to admit it in public here. Well, It's your taste and I'm O.K. with it even though I love them very much.
I started with PH's "Over" many years ago but only saw my first VDGG album two years ago (although I knew that there is such band with PH) so I took it (it was "pawn hearts") and fell in love from the first moment. It is true that at that time I was used to KC, Robert Wyatt (cuncuna - you gave me another reason to visit your country except for the beautiful nature), Talking heads and others so maybe I was ready for the weirdness of it. However in few months I got another 5 albums (H to He, Still life, World record, Godbluf & The least we .....) and love them all.
I do not agree with baldfriede that only over is dark, I think Hamill allways sing about lonliness. injustice, misery, love to someone who does'nt feel the same and so on. This is by definition dark lyrics and dark music and that is what I love about it. Baldfriede himself on a thread of dark music wrote about PH's "The fall of the house of Usher" (one of his favorites that he mention a lot and I'm trying to get it cause of his warm words) so we should be more consistent I guess.
For me in a very short time VDGG became one of my favorites with KC, Wyatt, PF, Genesys and few others.
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omri
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 13:03 |
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Who else could get away with the idiosyncratic:
"Fishes can't fly, fishes can't fly,
neither can I, neither can I"?
Those lyrics are almost cringeworthy, but Hammill knows this and gets away with it! As Friede rightly says, a lot of his work is tongue-in-cheek, but with serious overtones as well. Peter Hammill isn't a dark and brooding guy either from what I can tell, he's probably happier than Robert Fripp!
And seriously, I cannot even believe Hammill was ever as lonely and alienated as he says in his lyrics. Maybe in his youth, but I do not know, he may well have been in later life too. The music business does a funny thing to the psyche, but I cannot see it affecting him (or the rest of the band for that matter) all that much. He never wanted fame and fortune, or number one singles.
Edited by Geck0 - September 07 2006 at 03:11
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 37232
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:19 |
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No intelligent, or well-informed comments from me as I've just gotten into the band recently.
Hammil's voice does remind me of Bowie's. I'm still not that
familiar with their work, but for a few days I've been listening to
House With No Door obsessively. That's the song that totally
hooked me -- Man-Erg is also getting much play. I expect that
I'll grow to love VDGG much as I did with Gentle Giant not too long
ago.
I'll buy H to H very soon.
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
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Points: 7606
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:39 |
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I like the way they can be very heavy, very floaty, very introspective and very jamming, sometimes all in one song. I didn't immediately hit it off with Peter Hammill's voice but it's worth perservering.
I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.
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kajkeron
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 07 2006
Location: Poland
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Points: 7
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:42 |
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Well, Van Der Graaf knocks out every other band with the exeption of KING CRIMSON!
I AM A VDGG-HAMMILL EXTREMIST, I love the music and his voice and all. ONLY SOMETIMES THE LYRICS ARE FAR TOO BOMBASTIC AND KITCHOUS ("This side of the looking glass"). I WONDER IF PEOPLE FOR WHOM ENGLISH IS A MOTHER LANGUAGE FEEL IT BETTER. I DON"T LIKE SOME OF THE LYRICS, BUT IT DOESN'T DISTURB ME.
BUT IT"S REALLY HARD TO LISTEN SOME OF LYRICS IN LED ZEPPELIN OR DEEP PURPLE SONGS...
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 14:51 |
kajkeron wrote:
... ONLY SOMETIMES THE LYRICS ARE FAR TOO BOMBASTIC AND
KITCHOUS ("This side of the looking glass")...I WONDER IF PEOPLE FOR
WHOM ENGLISH IS A MOTHER LANGUAGE FEEL IT BETTER. I DON"T LIKE SOME OF
THE LYRICS, BUT IT DOESN'T DISTURB ME.
BUT IT"S REALLY HARD TO LISTEN SOME OF LYRICS IN LED ZEPPELIN OR DEEP PURPLE SONGS... |
Sure.. incidentally, I find shouting online rather bombastic, kitschy, and hard to 'listen to'. ;)
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Duncan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 180
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:01 |
kajkeron wrote:
SOMETIMES THE LYRICS ARE FAR TOO BOMBASTIC AND KITCHOUS ("This side of the looking glass"). |
Ooh, This Side of the Looking Glass. Now there's a track that's all about context.
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 15:02 |
BaldFriede wrote:
The Lost Chord wrote:
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes? It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.
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On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the lyrics! He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak too.
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I'm not a big VDGG fan, yet anyway. (But I know I will be.) His vocals are quite extaordinary and the odd mellodramatic flare seems to really enhance the alienation spoken about in some of the lyrics.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 16:40 |
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I stand corrected about Vital, I've listened to again and I have changed my mind about it, it's a great great live performance.
BaldFriede is right, it's a great live album, so much energy and musicianship. I think it was just a little to much for me on first listen, I was so used to the classic lineup, I made myself not like it.
Edited by Geck0 - September 07 2006 at 03:13
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The Lost Chord
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1907
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 23:01 |
ken4musiq wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
The Lost Chord wrote:
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes? It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.
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On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the lyrics! He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak too.
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I'm not a big VDGG fan, yet anyway. (But I know I will be.) His vocals are quite extaordinary and the odd mellodramatic flare seems to really enhance the alienation spoken about in some of the lyrics.
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Yeah, I love Hammills vocals, but I just dont see something like "White Hammer" working well at some points. He is screaming and viscious about everything in the song, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE VISCIOUS!! The spanich inquisition was evil and all and stupid, but the first part of the song works fine, with the simple errie melody and all...the whole anger part just doesnt work for me.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 23:09 |
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But it's an anti-witchcraft (Look up Malleus Malificarum) song and one of my favourites I might add, one of the few tracks not performed live as well. It kind of needs to be dark, loud and scary. He never over does it for me, he can be relaxed to of course, just listen to Refugees, House With No Door and a few others, they're not really over exuberant at all, beautiful songs infact.
Edited by Geck0 - September 07 2006 at 03:14
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1485
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 23:24 |
The Lost Chord wrote:
ken4musiq wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
The Lost Chord wrote:
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and
weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have
to sing so visciously sometimes? <SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">It
doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.</SPAN>WEIGHT: bold" smileys/smiley5.gif">
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On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the
lyrics! He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak
too. |
I'm not a big VDGG fan, yet anyway. (But I know I will be.) His vocals
are quite extaordinary and the odd mellodramatic flare seems to really
enhance the alienation spoken about in some of the lyrics.
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Yeah, I love Hammills vocals, but I just dont see something like "White
Hammer" working well at some points. He is screaming and viscious
about everything in the song, IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE VISCIOUS!! The
spanich inquisition was evil and all and stupid, but the first part of the
song works fine, with the simple errie melody and all...the whole anger
part just doesnt work for me. |
I think the angry vocals work perfectly with "White Hammer." Hammill's
vocals are incredible in my opinion but I do see why someone wouldn't
like them. They are very strange.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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Fritha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 10 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 471
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Posted: April 10 2006 at 03:53 |
^James Blunt's vocals are much stranger, but he seems to be doing okay at the moment!
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I was made to love magic
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: April 10 2006 at 04:29 |
laplace wrote:
I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.
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Interesting! King Crimson are the other major 70s band I don't like much, except for a couple of tracks on the first album. Perhaps it's just the dark, avant-garde style of VDGG that puts me off. In the end, there is no good and bad; it's all just a matter of taste and opinion.
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pero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 1242
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Posted: April 10 2006 at 06:09 |
Tony Fisher wrote:
laplace wrote:
I tend to listen to VdGG mixed in with King Crimson, I find them to be mutually complimenting.
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Interesting! King Crimson are the other major 70s band I don't like much, except for a couple of tracks on the first album.
Perhaps it's just the dark, avant-garde style of VDGG that puts me off. In the end, there is no good and bad; it's all just a matter of taste and opinion.
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If you don't like VDGG and KC what do you like?
Genesis are also dark.
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Odd24
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 199
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Posted: April 10 2006 at 06:47 |
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Right down the line
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pero
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 1242
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Posted: April 10 2006 at 06:53 |
Hey, you have my avatar....
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Odd24
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 199
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Posted: April 10 2006 at 07:25 |
pero wrote:
Hey, you have my avatar....
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Yes, now I notice it too  ...Jethro Tull's "A passion play" is one of my favourite songs...
But I am also very impressed by what Peter Hammill produces with his band VDGG (I haven't heard his solo work yet). There is so much variety in his music, just like all the other great 70's prog bands.
Edited by Odd24
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Right down the line
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