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Tony Fisher 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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 Topic: Van der Graaf Generator
Posted: April 08 2006 at 18:59 |
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I have just spent an evening listening again to Pawn Hearts and Godbluff, trying to work out why I never got into this band, hoping enlightenment would come.
At the end, all I have concluded is that Hugh Banton is a very fine keyboards player, that Guy Evans is a talented drummer but that I really cannot stand the band's music at all and that Hamill's vocals are probably the worst of any prog singer I've heard.
So what DO the band's fans see in them??? I'm missing it completely.
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The Lost Chord
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1907
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 19:10 |
Well, I see you are a prog folk specialist so you probably like alot more light stuff, not so much dark. I dont LOVE vdgg, but I think The Least We can do... is an amazing album! It is dark, yes, and meloncholy, but it is beautiful when I am in the mood.
I have trouble with pawn hearts also, the band gets more recognition than they deserve if you ask me...plenty of bands, i.e. moody blues, genesis, strawbs, YES...are FAR superior to VDGG.
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes? It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel.
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Progger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 19:25 |
My first & only experience of listening to VDGG was when they played live on the Old Grey Whistle Test way back when.... I knew from that experience that this was a band that was just not for me. The thing that has always stuck in my mind was Peter Hammill's voice & it's 'depressive & dark' tone. I've always liked my music to be uplifting & positive so VDGG were never a band I was going to like!
Horses for courses!
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Duncan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 180
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 19:30 |
 Tony Fisher wrote:
I really cannot stand the band's music at all and Hamill's vocals are probably the worst of any prog singer I've heard.
So what DO the band's fans see in them???
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The fact that their music is incredible and that Hammill is probably the best vocalist in prog. It's as transparent as that; you've given the band a good chance and you just don't like them. That's fine. Time to move on. Edit: Gee, I just read progger's post and I'd love to rant about the 'depressing' stereotype, but I did that yesterday in another thread. At length.
Edited by Duncan
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 19:31 |
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Power. Emotion. Great sax playing. Uniqueness. Hammill voice (i really like it, though i know most are turned off by it). And on a personal level, i can really relate to some of their songs.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
Status: Offline
Points: 7456
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 19:53 |
VdGG are unique and something that is unique usually polarises opinion.It's just a matter of personal taste...as usual 
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 20:20 |
Man Erg wrote:
VdGG are unique and something that is unique usually polarises opinion.It's just a matter of personal taste...as usual |
But... your nickname is "Man erg"!... I also love Van der Graaf Generator; Hammil's voice is worth for at least 6 vocalists in one, and, well, when I'm in that mood, I use the following combination: Dagmar Krause; Peter Hammil and Robert Wyatt. The way I see it, they share a dramatic tone...
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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HeirToRuin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 454
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Posted: April 08 2006 at 20:22 |
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I've only just begun listening to them this past week.
I enjoy they're linearity. The rarely, if ever, repeat
anything. The vocals aren't the most impressive about the
band..that's for sure, but they don't bother me so much. I'm sure
with more listens everything will gel better.
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yeppp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 03:31 |
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Well i can see the Best Prog band all time and the best singer all time so...
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glass house
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4986
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:03 |
With VDGG you either turn the volume way up high or leave the room in utter disgust !
There is no in between with those guys. It took me some time to get into them but now I play them a lot. Especially H to he.
The Lost Chord said : I have trouble with pawn hearts also, the band gets more recognition than they deserve if you ask me...plenty of bands, i.e. moody blues, genesis, strawbs, YES...are FAR superior to VDGG.
That is entirely your point of view, not the whole truth.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:07 |
Tony Fisher wrote:
I have just spent an evening listening again to Pawn
Hearts and Godbluff, trying to work out why I never got into this band,
hoping enlightenment would come.
At
the end, all I have concluded is that Hugh Banton is a very fine
keyboards player, that Guy Evans is a talented drummer but that I
really cannot stand the band's music at all and that Hamill's vocals
are probably the worst of any prog singer I've heard.
So what DO the band's fans see in them??? I'm missing it completely.
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Tony, from your other posts it looks as if you are more into the more
melodic prog. VdGG are for some inexplicable reason listed under
"Symphonic Prog", but putting them under "Avantgarde" would fit them a
lot better (at least for their early albums; as I pointed out in another
post, it would be much better if artists could belong to more than just
one category or if albums instead of artists were put into categories).
People would at least know what to expect from them then.
"Pawn Hearts", although a highly recommended album, is definitely the
wrong start for VdGG newbies (provided they are not into avantgarde
already). Try "Godbluff" first, it is much easier accessible.
About the voice: The first album I heard of them was "Godbluff"; I
really liked the music, but hated the singing. Then one day it made
"click", and I realised that Hammill's singing is the only appropriate
way to convey these lyrics, and I turned from Hammill-hater to
Hammill-lover.
And so it is with the music. Like no other band VdGG take you on a
rollercoaster ride of emotions. Their reunion concert at the Royal
Festival Hall in London last year (which Jean and I attended) was
simply incredible. As one reviewer put it: "I had expected that Van der
Graaf Generator would be good, but I had not expected they would grab
me by the scruff of my neck, hold me over a precipice, rattle me around
and leave me dangling there screaming for my life. Yes, it was that
good!"
As to Hammill having a bad voice: Definitely wrong. He can sing
absolutely beautifully and does when it fits the occasion (just listen
to the beginning of "Man-Erg"), and he has an incredible range of
voice, dynamically as well as pitchwise. He sings like he does
deliberately, to convey the emotions; his voice is probably the most
theatrical in prog. You may not like the way he uses his voice, but to
say it is "bad" is missing the point completely.
Edited by BaldFriede
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Rorro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2005
Location: Uruguay
Status: Offline
Points: 508
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:22 |
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That didn't happen to me, i've been leisening to VDGG only since the last month, i have, Godbluff, Pawn Hearts, Still Life and and H To The Who Am The Only One, the first album i listened to is Godbluff, and i only listened to it 5 or 6 times, but i already love hamill's voice, really good music, very emotional, i think in two or three months it will be one of my favourite groups. But i think i was likely to like that stuff, be cause i like avant garde like henry cow or frank zappa.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:30 |
The Lost Chord wrote:
I love hammills vocals, though, sometimes
they can get annoying and weird but mostly he is very unique and
awesome, but why does he have to sing so visciously sometimes? It doesnt go with the songs sometimes i feel. |
On the contrary, it goes exactly with the songs. Just read the lyrics!
He only raises his voice to the peak when the music reaches a peak too.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Winter Wine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 12 2005
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1140
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:50 |
Over the past week or so I have been constantly listening to Vdgg. I bought 'H to He..' ages ago and definately thought there was some cool stuff there but wasn't too into it (To put it simply), Last week though I took it back out and loved it, Listened to it three times just that night.
Then I took out my burned copy of 'Pawn Hearts' and fell in love with instantly (I'm listening to it right now!) The musicians are so incredible and I find Hammill absolutely extraordinary.
Vdgg are one of the most emotionally driven bands I've heard, So you either want to go there or you don't!!
Tony maybe you should just concentrate on one of those albums (Pawn Hearts? hehe) for a while, Get to know it, And then come back to it when you're in the mood, Mood's important with these guys.
Another thing is though, With most forms of progressive music it is essential to persevere, I mean if none of us did we'd most likely have no Progarchives to discuss the music. It's ok to push yourself a bit I feel, As long as you want to like the music.
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My computer's broke
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 04:51 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
I have just spent an evening listening again to Pawn
Hearts and Godbluff, trying to work out why I never got into this band,
hoping enlightenment would come.
At
the end, all I have concluded is that Hugh Banton is a very fine
keyboards player, that Guy Evans is a talented drummer but that I
really cannot stand the band's music at all and that Hamill's vocals
are probably the worst of any prog singer I've heard.
So what DO the band's fans see in them??? I'm missing it completely.
|
Tony, from your other posts it looks as if you are more into the more
melodic prog.
Correct!
VdGG are for some inexplicable reason listed under
"Symphonic Prog", but putting them under "Avantgarde" would fit them a
lot better (at least for their early albums; as I pointed out in another
post, it would be much better if artists could belong to more than just
one category or if albums instead of artists were put into categories).
People would at least know what to expect from them then.
Agreed - They're not symphonic IMO, bit that doesn't colour my view of them.
"Pawn Hearts", although a highly recommended album, is definitely the
wrong start for VdGG newbies (provided they are not into avantgarde
already). Try "Godbluff" first, it is much easier accessible.
I thought this was even worse than Pawn Hearts, actually!
As to Hammill having a bad voice: Definitely wrong. He can sing
absolutely beautifully and does when it fits the occasion (just listen
to the beginning of "Man-Erg"), and he has an incredible range of
voice, dynamically as well as pitchwise. He sings like he does
deliberately, to convey the emotions; his voice is probably the most
theatrical in prog. You may not like the way he uses his voice, but to
say it is "bad" is missing the point completely.
I didn't say he had a bad voice - it's the way he uses it that I don't like. He can sing OK, it's his melodramatic, bombastic style that irritates me.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 05:03 |
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I really like his more brutal versions of Darkness 11/11, the studio version is far more sedate compared to the live versions and work a lot better. The only bit I miss from the live versions are the multi-tracked vocals in one point, but this really isn't an issue!
How do you propose Hammill should sing such wonderful lyrics? How would James LaBrie, Mikael Akerfeldt, Daniel Gildenlow or similar type singers handle them instead? Would they have the passion? Yes, maybe, but Peter Hammill wrote the lyrics, he is the best and only person worthy of singing such lyrics, he knows when to stress certain parts, he knows which parts to sing softly, or to go wild. That obviously applies to all lyricist/vocalists of course.
He sends you on a rollercoaster of emotions and if you suffer from motion sickness, then he may just upset you.
I can understand why people would have issue with his vocals, he's not easy on the ears by all means.
I don't remember ever having issues with his vocal style, but then I've been brought up on Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen and Kate Bush!
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avestin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 18 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 12625
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 05:09 |
^^^
I never had problems with his voice, I liked them since the begining and my wife as well. She also says it reminds her a bit of David Bowie.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 05:13 |
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Well, this melodramatic and bombastic style is exactly what I love
about him. It helps to know that this is all tongue in cheek; Hammill
doesn't take himself seriously (that guy is full of humour, in fact).
Van der Graaf Generator are a funny band (shocking revelation), and
this over the top singing is a mockery (as are the dark lyrics, by the
way). You should have watched the long interview with Peter Hammill
that was online for a while; I'm not sure if it still is but can look
it up. But, as with all good comedians, there is some truth in all this
too; it is mockery, yes, but with meaning. The only really "dark" album of VdGG or PH is PH's solo album
"Over", and even here you will find some self-irony (just look at the
lyrics of "Crying Wolf").
Edited by BaldFriede
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 10:47 |
Geck0 wrote:
He sends you on a rollercoaster of emotions and if you suffer from motion sickness, then he may just upset you.
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It's the best rollercoaster ever though!
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: April 09 2006 at 10:48 |
avestin wrote:
I never had problems with his voice, I liked them since the begining and my wife as well. She also says it reminds her a bit of David Bowie.
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My mother said the exact same thing.
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Van der Graaf Generator
