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White Feather 
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 71
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 Topic: Zappa, Does humor belong in music ???
Posted: March 21 2006 at 09:36 |
OK I have tried and tried to understand Zappa , Just to get some kind of idea where he was coming from, but the thing is I have a hard time with his brand of humor ? I mean his musicality is fantastic !!!! But the humor I find to be in contrast with the high caliber chops he and his band display, this leaves me feeling an aversion towards most of the stuff he has recorded.
Am I alone with these thoughts ? does humor belong in music or not ? because it doesn`t seem to work for me, at least not on repeated plays (only my humble opinion ) 
Edited by White Feather
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Stiefel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 13 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 09:46 |
i fully agree with you; don't like humor in music at all!!
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:00 |
Many people share your sentiments, and it unfortunately prevents them from enjoying Zappa's brilliance.
I for one find his absurdist, Dada-esque humor to be yet another facet
of his genius. Satire and absurdity can be a potent tool to get a point
across.
It's also fun to be silly! 
For what it's worth, it took me years of steady listening to fully
appreciate Zappa. I now believe he is one of the VERY few musicians of
20th century modern music that truly deserves the title "Musical
Genius".
Edited by Empathy
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:13 |
I hate to quote Jimmy Buffet in a prog venue but "If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane..."
Zappa was intent on keeping us all from taking ourselves too seriously and there's very few things more important.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:16 |
 Chicapah wrote:
I hate to quote Jimmy Buffet in a prog venue but "If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane..."
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You just earned yourself 5 Prog Demerits. 
Jimmy's right about that, however. 
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:19 |
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The humorous lyrics don't bother me as much as the non-musical approach of the vocals.
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cmidkiff
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:21 |
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I'm assuming you mean Frank's vocals?
Surely you're not saying that Napoleon Murphy Brock, George Duke, Ike Willis, Adrain Belew, etc., can't sing?
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Dr Know
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 532
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:23 |
I also had the same experience. Songs about giant poodle dogs just donīt do it for me 
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:28 |
Empathy wrote:
I'm assuming you mean Frank's vocals?
Surely you're not saying that Napoleon Murphy Brock, George Duke, Ike Willis, Adrain Belew, etc., can't sing?
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Yea, not all the vocals, just the ones that have more of a spoken non melodic sense.
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cmidkiff
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:40 |
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I think humour does definitely belong in music, even in prog. That's why I like Canterbury bands. Deep, intense lyrics are very good, but everyone needs to lighten up a bit from time to time.
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:40 |
Dr Know wrote:
I also had the same experience. Songs about giant poodle dogs just donīt do it for me |
Man, that bites and the poodle chews it. 
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Rosescar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 07 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 715
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:28 |
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The humour is great. Also, his spoken vocal lines on for example
"Nanook Rubs It" contain quite a lot of "feeling" behind it, he says it
with certain emphasises on certain words etc.
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My music!
"THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp
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Duncan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 180
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:51 |
White Feather wrote:
this leaves me feeling an aversion towards most of the stuff he has recorded.
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I kind of object to this. It's absolutely possible to be a Zappa fan without having ever to sit through a moment of toilet humour. Otherwise, you're welcome to take it or leave it! ... I can't deal with Joe's Garage, myself.
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Rashikal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 07 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 546
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:15 |
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I'm a very nonsensical, easygoing person, and I love the lyrics.
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listen to Hella
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Firepuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 657
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:21 |
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Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
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Cygnus X-2
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 24 2004
Location: Bucketheadland
Status: Offline
Points: 21342
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 13:24 |
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I like Zappa because of the overly-impressive musical chops and the unconventional approach towards music he had. He had an impressive (to say the least) catalogue that features many masterpieces (Zappa in New York, The Grand Wazoo, etc.) to ones that come up short (You Are What You Is, Thing Fish). And as a guitarist, it doesn't get any better than a zany Zappa solo... not to mention Adrian Belew was in the band (and he's one of my absolute favorite musicians) during my favorite era of his career.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 14:47 |
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I like Zappa, but he would be even better if he played the humour card a little less. Just my opinion.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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necromancing777
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 19 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 14:54 |
YES! Humor belongs in everything, especially music. Just listen to 'Dirty Love' or "Broken Hearts Are For Assh*les". The man is a genious.
"I'll ignore your cheap aroma
And your little-bo-peep diploma
I'll just put you in a coma
With some dirty love"
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"Your progressive hypocrites hand out their trash,
But it was mine in the first place, so I'll burn it to ash."
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:00 |
White Feather wrote:
OK I have tried and tried to understand Zappa , Just to get some kind of idea where he was coming from, but the thing is I have a hard time with his brand of humor ? I mean his musicality is fantastic !!!! But the humor I find to be in contrast with the high caliber chops he and his band display, this leaves me feeling an aversion towards most of the stuff he has recorded.
Am I alone with these thoughts ? does humor belong in music or not ? because it doesn`t seem to work for me, at least not on repeated plays (only my humble opinion )
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Alot of music is satirical and people do not see it like that. Whan Emerson or Jon Lord quote a piece of Bach or Tchaikovsky it is often toungue in cheek. With Zappa you get a lot of toilet humor, which I really do not go in for, perhaps with the exception "Don't You Eat that Yellow Snow." I think that soe musicians could lern a little bit from humor, Fripp comes to mind. Is music better because it is more serious?
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:30 |
I think Zappa liked to write lyrics just to shock people. His jokes sometimes missed the mark, particularly in the later years, when many of the references were too "in" for most non-band-members to get. But in a way, I think he was challenging the listener to see past the scatological lyrics and discover the amazing music behind them.
This created the dual fan base that would show up at his concerts: The drunken post-adolescents who would scream out for the band to play "Dinah-Moe-Humm", and the musically astute, who would see the band for it's musical prowess.
On the final tour (sob), Zappa played two shows in Boston. The first night, he played mostly the humor filled songs. The second night, he announced that the show was for the Berklee students in the audience, and the band played an amazing set (including my favorite, Echidna's Arf.
And I like his song about the giant poodle.
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Zappa, Does humor belong in music ???
