Where’s Kansas ?

This is kind of a dumb thread, not because of the subject, but because the Top 100 is in no way a reflection of the quality or value of any of the albums listed there.  It's really just somebody's clever math project (nothing personal Mike).  That's why you'll find albums like Harmonium's "Si on avait besoin d'une 5ième Saison" alongside classics from Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis, et. al.  I haven't heard this album myself so it may actually be a brilliant gemstone, but I do see it has only 14 reviews logged under it, and two of those are at least partially in French.  Kind of hard to form an opinion with so little information.

Really, if you even wanted to get Triumph's "Allied Forces" on the list (which is an album so awful I wouldn't even waste my time smashing it, let alone listening to it), just go to your local library and log in as someone different several times (or as a guest) and go write some blather about the album and give it five stars.  After several of these it will show up very high on the list.

You're much better off taking the time to read the reviews from the people who have listened to the albums and taken the time to write about them.  This is much more useful than that goofy stats chart.

This site actually has managed to find a good process for validating album ratings.  Only those who take the time to write an explanation for their rating get shown, and there's a forum to report reviews that are meaningless or otherwise inappropriate.  I think that works well.  But as long as the older bogus ratings continue to be counted in overall album rankings, those rankings are pretty much tainted.

Of course, KANSAS is in MY TOP TEN !!!      

I always recommend three albums to my friends:    

1)        2)         3)  

And, later... all Discography!!! (with Elefante, Morse, Ragsdale, etc.) And PROTO-KAW too!!!     

omri wrote: Funny discussion I found it ! To Sean Trane - I agree with you about the list being too important to some guys. Yet I would advise you to read your own words. If the list is not important then those who try so hard to promote their favorites and stop others deserves pitty and not hatred. To all of us - nobody knows all prog bands & albums. It is possible that those we did not hear yet are better than what we allready know. There is no right & wrong here and the list is some kind of an avarage of many opinions. About Kansas - Leftoverture is in my personal top 50 while the debut & song for america are very good albums but not in the same league of leftoverture (IMO). Point of know return has some great prog songs (hoplessly human, portrait & closet chronicles) but other songs less impressive. Monolyth is maybe non prog mostly but Angels have fallen is one of Kansas' great songs ever and is fully prog IMO.

Very valid point you make and as I said, I was maybe a little harsh on those guys. But that bending the system to fit their needs is bordering on the sabotage or a trolling activity>>> which provoked my anger, but should've not provoked my language outbursts

But when I talk of "lower form of life" or "lowlife" , I do mean it in a pityful way. I mean: do these guys really have nothing better to do than skew top 100 list? Like running after girls and try to get laid? or go out and play sports?

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To come back on Kansas, clearly until Leftoverture (included) the vast majority of their music was prog (Masque was a little less so). Most Kansasheads, will defend them until Monolith (included) (which I can still admit) a bit the same way Genesis remained prog until Duke (included) but less so than previously

Ivan ,

Oh my god you are a lawyer ! Lawyers are those cinical guys who use words to get bad people out of trouble and not pay for what they have done. That does not fit loving of prog.

I know it's a bit narrowminded but I must admit I would never guess that this is your proffession.

Back to Leftoverture : We are very close in age and I know this album since 1978. Until 1980 I thought as you do that "Miracles out of nowhere" is their greatest song but after a while, though I still think it's a great song I prefer "Cheyene anthem" and "Magnum opus" cause (IMO) these are much nore complex and deep and interesting and beautiful music aswell.

OK, I'm a newbie I know but...

Although I have only recently joined I have been actively visiting this site (several times a day most days) for the past year and a bit. I do consider myself a bit of an expert on the 70's progressive rock scene as that is when I first stared listening to progressive rock (yes I'm old) and I have continued  listening to it these past 30 years.

Do I like the top 100 list? Definitely! It is a quick overview of the opinions of the members, most of whom I have grown to admire in their knowledge of music generally and the breadth of their musical interests.

Is the top 100 list absolute? Absolutely not!

Should Kansas be in the top 100? Probably, but clearly the majority think not - or perhaps (as in government) the vocal minority think not. Their special interest may be furthering their own favourite groups but that does not detract from the general value of such a list.

What is great about this site? Many things done well probably but ultimately it's greatest accomplishment is that it has resparked my interest in exploring new music. And as an old fart married with children I do not have the time to listen to music like I did when I was a young man. This site has helped narrow my options (so to speak) and allow me to explore the best (quantitative) of all genres and decades in the least amount of time.

I have an 18 year old nephew who's favourite group is Dream Theater. Is this a bad thing? NO!!! Would he skew the ratings if he became a member and started rating albums? Hmmm, probably.

BUT HERE IS THE THING - thanks to this site I have purchased copies of 'Scenes from a Memory Metropolis' and 'Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence'. He was shocked and amazed when he told me that he liked Dream Theater and I responded that my favourite bit by DT was Scene II from Memory Metropolis. He hadn't listened to Inner Turbulence yet so I lent him my copy! His respect for me grew that day - NOW HOW COOL IS THAT!!! 

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks!

Sean Trane is right about people who put negative (and Positive) stars without writing a review to move their favorites into better position.  I really never paid attention to the list as far as things I want to buy in the future.  I mean LO is 97 but Tarkus is 99? 

I went and looked at these two albums ratings .  Leftoverature had 5 of it's 70 ratings either 1-2 star but none of those posted a review.  Tarkus had no one star reviews but is hurt because far more people rated in 4 star than 5. Of the 5-6 two star ratings at least two of them wrote a review.  That is the opposite for LO. 

I would have rated both these albums in the top ten and Tarkus would be ahead of LO. To me that was the album that defined prog in 1971 or at the very least was one of the top three pioneer albums at the time.  The title track alone is worth a top ten rating.  But who really cares?  Do you enjoy the music whether or not anyone else gets it?  Because if you don't something is wrong with the way you look at things. 

Kansas has far more fans on this site that they did when I joined.  I think Ivan may have been one the few people here that spoke about them positively.  I guess that is how I became a crusader for them here because so few here even gave them or American Prog rock in general the time of day.

 It might surprise you all but my favorite band is Genesis followed by ELP then Kansas, Yes, Jethro Tull and Gentle Giant. I have some newer bands I listen to more than the old ones now because they create new music but I always love those groups I mentioned. They are never far from the CD player.

ivan_2068 wrote: Slippery, I not only believe Leftoverture is top 10 material, but I also believe: Robbie Steinhardt (Probably along with Mauro Pagani) is the best Symphonic Prog violin player in the market (Most of the other top ones play Fusion like Jean Luc Ponty and Jerry Goodman) Phil Ehart is one of the most uinderrated drummers, you just have to watch Device , Voice Drums, the guys has a perfevt toimming and makes anyone believe drumming is easy. Never over plays, almost doesn't sweat, but his technique is absolutely perfect (this comes from an ex-drummer) the guy never looks at his kit, a lot of times has his eyes closed, but knows exactly where to hit the drums or metals to get the best. Easily is a top 10 but never mentioned. Kerry Livegren is one of the most talented songwritters (With Kansas, his solo stuff is not as great). Steve Walsj had a very solid voice (Sadly it's lost), but he's still a wonderful keyboardist. Rich Williams is getting even better and Greer is very solid. Despite all this thoughts, i don't agree with the tactic of promoting any band as in a Karaoke contest. Iván

 In regards to the Karaoke bit I  understand what you are saying