ELO in PA? Gimme justice!

Sean Trane wrote:  OK, I remembered well this album given the twenty years lapse between two hearings It did not really change my mind; if previous albums were prog rock, this one is fully symphonic and conceptual, but it is PROGRESSIVE POP. Still good though     Prog Related (Studio Album, 1974) Avg: 4.21/5 from 14 ratings ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* "Eldorado: A Symphony" Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine Posted 3:17:51 AM EST, 3/7/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATOR (Honorary Collaborator)    So far, I have rated ELO a little over their own real value (giving them a half-star over what I believe they really deserve – except for the debut album), but with this album, usually regarded by a lot of progheads as their masterpiece: I feel I have to set the record straight! If most progheads look down unnecessarily on previous album, they generally tend to regard this one a bit too highly. Yes, it is fully symphonic and conceptual (and therefore progressive in its own right), but it is POP rather than ROCK (something previous album were not) and just for that ELO loses a bit of credential to this reviewer’s eyes. But please do not let me be a party pooper as the songwriting on this album is still phenomenal - even though only written by Lynne himself, it must’ve been arranged by the whole group. With this album, Lynne actually veers away (finally some might say) from his Fab Four infatuation, but I feel this might be exactly where the weakness in this album lies. Although still plainly an ELO album and in itself a small tour de force, songwriting-wise it does not really resemble any other album of theirs. I think that my main gripe about this album is that the strings and full orchestras are over-used a tad (ton?) too much for my tastes. But some of the evident melodies of previous albums are lacking and even the hit Can’t Get It INTO My Head is not catchy for me. Funnily enough, it is the album that most everyone is ready to laud to the skies, and I personally cannot help feeling that ELO just missed the holy grail by a few hairs had they been a bit less pretentious with this one. But nevertheless, this album should be the proof to dubitative progheads, that ELO has its own full place in the Archives.

First, I want to thank you for supporting ELO's early works as prog/art rock and reviewing the early LPs, which I consider quality prog music that still stands up today.

And in this case, I support the posting of the review, since it allows us to read and respond without having to hyperlink out and back again. And while I don't agree on all points, I understand where your coming from.

BUT (you knew it was coming), what I don't see discussed at all is the concept of the LP itself. That is one of the crucial factors that makes it the art that it is. You do mention that it is a concept album, but don't go on to elaborate. It's like reviewing Sgt. Pepper without ever discussing the "band within a band" concept and how that gives context to the music.

But as I said, thanks for reviewing it. I'm going to get around to it myself soon.

You know , I was listened to the Classic Rock radio of Belgium and they were playing three tracks of ELO coming from Out Of The Blue and New World Record

Quite a bit more commercial (but ELO was always so) , but even those two albums have their own great merits. Some of those tracks are superbly arranged with that string sectionn Hugh Mc Dowell is the one that did most of the arrangements.>>> Still prog in a way

Sean Trane wrote: I was thinkling of getting ELO moved from proto-prog to Art Rock

You really should. I say that with all seriousness. (stern-faced emoticon here).

They are in Prog Related, where they belong IMO.

What should change is this:

Why this artist must be listed in www.progarchives.com : This band was one of the very first to incorporate symphonic elements like the strings (violins, cellos) into the main workings of their songs.

That's not enough reasons a lot of Disco Bands incorporated violins and Cellos (Starting with Donna Summer) orc even mediocre Muzak orchestras as James Last and they were not Prog. Instruments don't make a genre, the genre is made by the musicians, you can play Prog without keyboards and play Disco/POP with violins.

This is my main opposition to ELO, IMO they were a rock/Disco band that used violins and cellos.

Talk about structures, influences, styles, musicianship, etc, not about the instruments they used.

Iván

You know this disco-calling thing is getting on my nerves!!!! People calling danceable rock/pop of the late-70's disco is just as dumb and inaccurate as saying punk killed prog....   If you listen to the first three albums, it is way more than just a rock band with a string section. They use those instruments as an integral part of their sound and songs>>> I see a lot of medieval or pre renaissance music in their debut which is really close to Gryphon >>> full blown prog if you ask me I never really thought of ELO as a disco band, even with Out Of The Blue >> but I must admit that past Discovery , I do not know their stuff, though Their songs got played in disco, because they were commercial and danceable, but theu were still rock/pop. Disco music is a two-beat, which makes that even the stupidest and clumsiest dancers could manage to go along with the beat and this is why it became so popular>>> Calling ELO in the 70's disco is rather off-beat and unjustified   Some people accused the Rolling Stones of turning disco because of Miss You, but if you listen to the album Some Girls from which it came from, this is a full blown ROCK record (and the last good one they made - apart of 86's Dirty Work) DISCO was created solely as dance music (Donna Summer etc.... ) or funk music (EW&F or Jackson 5)  but not Stones or ELO. And no-one in his right mind would qualify ELO as just dance music. As a matter of fact their music was danceable and this allowed me to have the odd blast while attending the rare disco-nights I went to, to actually dance with the girls to the Stones's Miss You  or even Seger's Old Time RnR (also played very often in disco back then) or ELO. Then I would have a good excuse to fondle women in the insidious slows, since I did dance with them before. Bob Seger's Turn The Page was a superb slow often played

Sean, why is truth so hard to swallow for you in this case?

In first place I'm not talking about theirv first albums, those are aout of this context even if you want upo to Out of the Blues (Which was already very poppy to say the less), lets forget about all those albums, so you don't have to explain their merits because i know them.

I clearles state that ELO was a Rock/Disco band as I would also state that my favorite band Genesis was a Progressive Rock/POP band.

Genesis was Prog until W&W (IMO), and according to others until Duke, but then Genesis turned into a POP band and boring POP.

ELO was a Rock band (Still don't buy they were PROG even when they were related) but Discovery and XANADU are 100% DISCO ALBUMS.

Not even ELO takes time to deny it during this two albums:

Discovery:  Just in case you didn't noticed Discovery is a play of two words.Disco and Very in other words they were announcing it was a Very Disco album, they changed their excellent chorus (Almost as good as the ones Queen did and at least in the level of the best STYX ones)  for Bee Geeesque acute shouts, their beat is clearly Disco and repetitive, created exclusively to be played at Studio 54 or any Discotheque that was in fashion on those days for the Hemingway sisters to dance.

 Even the looks of the members changed (If you have the Out of The Bluse Live and Discovery DVD you will notice that the difference between the two eras, on the later one the guys are dressing as any Travolta in SaturdayNight Fever except Jeff who's peculiar hair style changed for a typicall African Look. It started as a joke but it was profitable, so they insisted.

XANADU: This is noyt only Disco, but the peak of the cheesiest musical genre (again IMO), this album was released  as the soundtrack of a DISCO movie, with the Disco star of the moment (Olivia Newton John), but not only to be played at the discothecs, it was designed for the Roller Boogie mania, there was not a roller skating dance disco (People used to dance Disco music with recently invented Poliurethane wheels skates), I hated Disco, but I was a pretty good skater and the only way to know chciks (Sorry ladies for the  disrespectful term, but it is the oone I had in mine when I was a teenager) was to go to the skate places. Of course I stayed most of the time drinking something or skating when there was no music.

It's clearly and 100% Disco, there's no douibt about this, they even share credits with Olivia Newton John. Instead of making great concerts they started playing very often in a Saturday Disco TV shows in all the world with bands as ABBA or stars as Eruption (One Way Ticket to the Moon) ane EW&F.

You admit you didn't followed their career since Discovery, so you can't give your opinion about what they turned into. I was a young teen on those years and was embarrased of listening ELO (One of my favorite rock bands) in this environment.

I don't say they were Disco during all their career, no they weren't, but hey turned into a Disco band or maybe just used Disco music as a vehicle to recieve fresh bucks making the kids shake their booties.

Now about The Rolling Stones, I don't think they were ever a Disco band, they became pretty poppy but not Disco. Maybe remotely close to Disco, to be preise less closer than they were  to Prog with Their Satanic Majesties Request.

So Sean, you're an intelligent guy, I love to discuss with you, so I don't expect you will close your eyes to reality, ELO IMO was mostly a Rock band, you may argue they were Prog I believe they were related only (This can be discussed) but the fact that Discovery and Xanadu are 100% Disco albums ois a fact.

So saying they became Disco during a stage of their career is absolutely fair and precise.

Iván

No Micky is not a diatribe, when I refer to ELO today as I will do in 100 years  I will call them a Rock/Disco band, because trhey embraced both genres.

I was just answering Sean's post who said ELO was never a Disco band, which is bnot accurate, I also say (If you read my post carefully) that their career before this two infamous albums is out of the question.

If somebody asks me about Genesis I will say they were a Progressive Rock/POP band, as  a fact I said in my last post before you even mentioned it.

That's not offending them, unless the truth is offensive.

BTW: Just as I'm wriitting I'm watching the Out of the Blues/Discovery DVD, it's a pitty that the Out of the Blues show for Charity recording has such a terrible recording, it's also funny to see The Dukes of Gloucester talking with the band  plus a fat and absolutely not funny Tony Curtis introducing ELO and trying to steal the show during the ELO chat with the Dukes of Gloucester.

Hope they remaster this show, because it's very good.

Iván

BTW: If you feel nausea use Gravol

micky wrote: Sean Trane wrote: bluetailfly wrote: First, I want to thank you for supporting ELO's early works as prog/art rock and reviewing the early LPs, which I consider quality prog music that still stands up today. And in this case, I support the posting of the review, since it allows us to read and respond without having to hyperlink out and back again. And while I don't agree on all points, I understand where your coming from. BUT (you knew it was coming), what I don't see discussed at all is the concept of the LP itself. That is one of the crucial factors that makes it the art that it is. You do mention that it is a concept album, but don't go on to elaborate. It's like reviewing Sgt. Pepper without ever discussing the "band within a band" concept and how that gives context to the music. But as I said, thanks for reviewing it. I'm going to get around to it myself soon. I'll be looking forward to it Rightly so, I forget the concept just as I did also about On The Third Day, but I did not understand the one in that album. I did not talk of the Eldorado concept because my outlook is to defend the "progressiveness" of ELO, because they are all too often under attack. The fact that it is a concept(and I mention it), gives one more argument towards ELO's progressiveness At first I supported their inclusion, but when I saw how many people were against it, I thought about dropping the idea Then a collab did introduce them and there was a flurry of threads howling at treason etc.. I thought the best way to defend ELO's cause would be to review them and I revived this thread (but I found none that were positive so I choose this one - look at the first posts as this was the better one) Another solution was to create a new thread, but this would've taken away the spite of my reviews. Kudos to you Sean...  and whovever that collab was that did introduce them... bravo.  I could imagine the stink that raised.    especially amoung several in particular hahahah  The sun still rises and sets at PA's and the prog planet has not spun wildly out of control into the depths of the musical void.  A sizeable number of people consider ELO prog, and the general group at large..  might now be exposed to something different to see what the fuss is about....to make up their own mind rather than call them a ....disco group hahahhah .    Isn't that really why we are all here.  To learn more about prog, to share our thoughts on it, and be exposed to other groups (and different forms)  of prog that we haven't heard before.

Thank you.

 ELO discography: since Yes also has a Disco-graphy, and we also heard jon and vangelis iwith the Mr.Cairo.......... jess kidddiiiinnnnn!!!!!!!!!.........

No Answer (Electric Light Orchestra) (1971)
ELO 2 (1973)
On The Third Day (1973)
Eldorado (1974)
The Night the Light Went On (In Long Beach) (1974)
Face The Music (1975)
OLE ELO (1976)
A New World Record (1976)
Out of the Blue (1977)
Discovery (1979)
Xanadu (1980)
Time (1981)
Secret Messages (1983)
Balance of Power (1986)
Zoom (2001)

Even if I am to take those two records Discovery and Xanadu (I forgot that awful stuff was from them as I associated the movie to Olivia Newton-john not to ELO) that makes two records disco, and the rest is not not.

Then again in sheer terms of records , Genesis is a pop band for it has an atrocious amount/percentage  of pop (or dance/pop) >>> they were frequently heard over the disco blasters in the 80's >>> but this does not stop them from being put in a full blown prog genre in our Archives

Why is the same thing not done to ELO? All I am suggesting is Art Rock (which is the entry/start level on our progscale), not any further (and I will not loose any sleep over it, either if it stays where it is)!!!!

How can we possibly say that Santana is not prog in view of his fabulous discography of the 70's simply because he did some commercial stuff in recent years!! well since the start of the 80's them too!!!!>>>> you know this is no coincidence Genesis, ELO, Santana all making crappy records from 79 onwards: Why does Genesis cause no problem when Santana is out and ELO just barely in???

On the whole: a group should be judged from its progressiveness in the time they broughtsomething to music, help develop it were highly influential to prog artiste etc...>> this means that the early stuff should have preponderance over the later stuff

Do you also want to talk of Chicago Transit Authority or do you consider them as trashy love songs because of If You leave Me Now? these guys put out over 8 good to excellent records (which is more than Genesis did) before also going commercial in 78. And Chicago is not in the Archives either

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PS: I said that I never considered them disco, not that they never were one>>> read back if you do not believe it. The difference is that they had a long career with a few out of the point records, but so did many groups...

People seem to never forgive the Stones for Miss You (which is a damn good rock song) , that one bloody song over a 40 year career. and then stupidly most critics forget to look at the next album, Emotional Rescue and its solid funk (and semi-disco) songs>> let's stop the pigeonholing of artistes for one or two records which does not represent them ot the majority of their works.