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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 14:37
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

ELDORADO sounds like a poor-man's 70's Sgt Pepper to me.I've just listened to it on Napster.

Of course that does not preclude it from being on Prog Archives,but at times it does seem far removed from what one would normally imagine Prog Rock to me.

However,they haven't been added as a Prog Rock band and we should remember that when judging their inclusion.

Now I can get "I Cant Get It Out Of My Head" out my head....



that's where I was rather pleased to see you all put them on...


prog isn't just about complex, 20 minute longs, instrumental wankfests... those are characteristics... not requirements hahahhah.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 00:00
Originally posted by dima_olkov dima_olkov wrote:

Sometimes I fail to understand Band Admission Team logic.

If you consider ELO to be prog-related so

(I know it has been discussed lots of times but still!!)

In first place don't blame the Band Admission team (From which I'm not part), a well intentioned member with clearence to add bands added ELO despite it has been rejected in many polls and threads by the vast majority of the members.

According to the politics of the site a band that is here won't be deleted, so "consumatum est", they are here to stay despite most of us don't agree.

WHERE IS ZEPPELIN???????

Many many people agree with this...

I may agree or not, I'm still not sure, I always seen Led Zeppelin as a Hard Rock/Early Metal band, not as Prog, but the argument you use is lame, the fact that an IMO non Prog band like ELO has been added, doesn't mean we have to use them as excuse to add bands which are not 100% Prog.

Why do you guys see Prog' as the grand award???? A band or music is good despite the genre, Led Zeppelin is an icon of hard rock, here they will be added as Prog related. Zep's music will be equally good if they are included or not.

Two mistakes don't make a correct solution.

Iván



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 01:49
early ELO is progressive rock, Led Zeppelin, Queen
and Deep Purple are early Hard Rock.
No Answer and Eldorado at least are mostly
progressive albums. Afterwards they became very
commerical, but so did Genesis. Cant blame Jeff for
following the money, after all, musical freedom was
gone by the late 70's anyway. Many other bands
should have followed instead of changing their
output to recording industry standards and creating a
bunch of junk, commercial junk or progressive junk,
whats the difference?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 08:43
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Originally posted by dima_olkov dima_olkov wrote:

Sometimes I fail to understand Band Admission Team logic.

If you consider ELO to be prog-related so

(I know it has been discussed lots of times but still!!)

In first place don't blame the Band Admission team (From which I'm not part), a well intentioned member with clearence to add bands added ELO despite it has been rejected in many polls and threads by the vast majority of the members.

According to the politics of the site a band that is here won't be deleted, so "consumatum est", they are here to stay despite most of us don't agree.

good thing the majority don't dictate things around here isn't it hahahha.  Some people have different notions of what is and is not prog... if their views are not represented what do you have here Ivan... a site not for fans of prog... but a site for fans with narrow views of what is and is not prog.   Some bands are enough in that grey area that they should be included.. like ELO... some aren't and should not... like Zeppelin.  It's up to to the Band Admission team to decide.... not these majority of voters  you keep referring to.

WHERE IS ZEPPELIN???????

Many many people agree with this...

I may agree or not, I'm still not sure, I always seen Led Zeppelin as a Hard Rock/Early Metal band, not as Prog, but the argument you use is lame, the fact that an IMO non Prog band like ELO has been added, doesn't mean we have to use them as excuse to add bands which are not 100% Prog.

Why do you guys see Prog' as the grand award???? A band or music is good despite the genre, Led Zeppelin is an icon of hard rock, here they will be added as Prog related. Zep's music will be equally good if they are included or not.

Two mistakes don't make a correct solution.

Iván

couldn't agree with that more (other than your ELO references hahahah) Each band should be judged individually... not in relation to others. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 09:01
and since I'm on a roll again this morning and can't let a dead horse rot in peace....

remember Ivan when I opened my big mouth and swallowed not only my foot.. but my whole damn leg hahahhah...

back in one of the countless threads devoted to this subject.. I made the assertion that many  of that majority that you refer to probably were  not familiar with their ENTIRE discography....

granted that was probably not the best thing to come and say... but I offer an example...

in another thread I was talking with a poster (no names) who is WELL respected not only by myself but by the forum at large... I asked which albums he had heard...  all of them were late 70's albums....  no wonder your majority thinks they are not prog... I offered some suggestions and I'd love to know what he'd think if he checks them out.

Prog is such a VAST genre  Ivan.. granted I came off as an ass but I still will stand by my theory  that many of that 'majority' have not  listened to their COMPLETE works.  Those that have like yourself and CertifIed .... I of course respect your opinons... remember though... they are just that.. opinions.. just like mine and the fairly sizeable number of people who are familiar with their complete works and think they should be included. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 12:11
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


good thing the majority don't dictate things around here isn't it hahahha.  Some people have different notions of what is and is not prog... if their views are not represented what do you have here Ivan... a site not for fans of prog... but a site for fans with narrow views of what is and is not prog.   Some bands are enough in that grey area that they should be included.. like ELO... some aren't and should not... like Zeppelin.  It's up to to the Band Admission team to decide.... not these majority of voters  you keep referring to.

Micky I will be honest without mentioning nemes because I don't believe it's ethic or even necessary.

ELO WAS ADDED BY MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a problem in the collaboratoors section.

Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 12:21
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


good thing the majority don't dictate things around here isn't it hahahha.  Some people have different notions of what is and is not prog... if their views are not represented what do you have here Ivan... a site not for fans of prog... but a site for fans with narrow views of what is and is not prog.   Some bands are enough in that grey area that they should be included.. like ELO... some aren't and should not... like Zeppelin.  It's up to to the Band Admission team to decide.... not these majority of voters  you keep referring to.

Micky I will be honest without mentioning nemes because I don't believe it's ethic or even necessary.

ELO WAS ADDED BY MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a problem in the collaboratoors section.

Iván

hahhah....divine intervention...  God does work in mysterious ways doesn't he.   He is a prog fan you know

Micky

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 07:16

I certainly would not rate ELO as the most controversial inclusion in the Archives and for me if groups like Queen, Roxy, Muse are added, there was no reasons why this group should not!!Soon or later I gather 10CC will be in also

These guys were prog (albeit a little light) until their New World Record /Out Of The Blue phase

and Eldorado is prog even if a little kitsch and borrowed. Jeff Lynne was always famous for his Beatles-influenced songwriting, so if Eldorado does sound like Ggt Pepper, this is no great surprise

____________________________________________________________ ________

 

As for the Roll Over Beethoven with the added intro and outro, this does not make it prog since the body of the song is almost unchanged

ELO always a very rnR twist to them!!!! Check Ma ma ma Belle out, to get a load of it.

Nevertheless I intend to review them until Face The Music

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 07:24
I agree with Hughes (or Sean). ELO are prog until Face the music and , iMHO, ELO II is plainly progressive. ELO followed the same sad way as bands like Earth & Fire. But we all now that the dark side is easier to follow.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 07:46
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I certainly would not rate ELO as the most controversial inclusion in the Archives and for me if groups like Queen, Roxy, Muse are added, there was no reasons why this group should not!!Soon or later I gather 10CC will be in also

These guys were prog (albeit a little light) until their New World Record /Out Of The Blue phase

and Eldorado is prog even if a little kitsch and borrowed. Jeff Lynne was always famous for his Beatles-influenced songwriting, so if Eldorado does sound like Ggt Pepper, this is no great surprise

____________________________________________________________ ________

 

As for the Roll Over Beethoven with the added intro and outro, this does not make it prog since the body of the song is almost unchanged

ELO always a very rnR twist to them!!!! Check Ma ma ma Belle out, to get a load of it.

Nevertheless I intend to review them until Face The Music



.... I can live (and  agree with large parts) with that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 07:49
Originally posted by rockandrail rockandrail wrote:

I agree with Hughes (or Sean). ELO are prog until Face the music and , iMHO, ELO II is plainly progressive. ELO followed the same sad way as bands like Earth & Fire. But we all now that the dark side is easier to follow.


hahahha... yeah it sure is.... the temptation to follow the dark side is strong...

taxi or Rolls Royce..

Dom Perignon or sour milk  with breakfast...

Playboy models  or Trixie from the street corner......


I'd look great in a black suit.......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 08:51
     The sad part is that ELO probably IS progressive rock...but there's lots of
prog that really sucks... ELO were definitely at the forefront of THAT
movement.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 09:33
Originally posted by RoyalJelly RoyalJelly wrote:

     The sad part is that ELO probably IS progressive rock...but there's lots of
prog that really sucks... ELO were definitely at the forefront of THAT
movement.


hahahha... sure buddy....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 10:00

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 11:07
Guess what, Journey's first two albums were Progressive Rock too! That will blow most peoples concept, but its true! Give them a listen, you'll be surprized. Basically Santana's band that made Caravanserai, Welcome and Santana 3, with less latino groove and NO STEVE PERRY!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 11:14

Originally posted by DallasBryan DallasBryan wrote:

Guess what, Journey's first two albums were Progressive Rock too! That will blow most peoples concept, but its true! Give them a listen, you'll be surprized.

Basically Santana's band that made Caravanserai, Welcome and Santana 3, with less latino groove and NO STEVE PERRY!

Journey: 

You might even add their third album, Next to be proggish , but no quite like their first two, and then Perry happened, Ainsley Dunbar left, and things changed dramaticaly

Santana's 70's output (including his solo albums) until 79's Oneness included is awesome and definitely much worth the inclusion. However, we are in both case stuck because the owners want the full discographies in the database

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 12:03

Originally posted by Majestic_Mayhem Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

Gotta love Justice League......

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 03:24

 OK, I remembered well this album given the twenty years lapse between two hearings

It did not really change my mind; if previous albums were prog rock, this one is fully symphonic and conceptual, but it is PROGRESSIVE POP. Still good though

 

 

ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* Eldorado: A Symphony progressive rock album and reviews Prog Related
(Studio Album, 1974)
Avg: 4.21/5
from 14 ratings
ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* "Eldorado: A Symphony"
Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine
Posted 3:17:51 AM EST, 3/7/2006

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3 stars   So far, I have rated ELO a little over their own real value (giving them a half-star over what I believe they really deserve – except for the debut album), but with this album, usually regarded by a lot of progheads as their masterpiece: I feel I have to set the record straight! If most progheads look down unnecessarily on previous album, they generally tend to regard this one a bit too highly. Yes, it is fully symphonic and conceptual (and therefore progressive in its own right), but it is POP rather than ROCK (something previous album were not) and just for that ELO loses a bit of credential to this reviewer’s eyes.

But please do not let me be a party pooper as the songwriting on this album is still phenomenal - even though only written by Lynne himself, it must’ve been arranged by the whole group. With this album, Lynne actually veers away (finally some might say) from his Fab Four infatuation, but I feel this might be exactly where the weakness in this album lies. Although still plainly an ELO album and in itself a small tour de force, songwriting-wise it does not really resemble any other album of theirs. I think that my main gripe about this album is that the strings and full orchestras are over-used a tad (ton?) too much for my tastes. But some of the evident melodies of previous albums are lacking and even the hit Can’t Get It INTO My Head is not catchy for me.

Funnily enough, it is the album that most everyone is ready to laud to the skies, and I personally cannot help feeling that ELO just missed the holy grail by a few hairs had they been a bit less pretentious with this one. But nevertheless, this album should be the proof to dubitative progheads, that ELO has its own full place in the Archives.
 
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 07:41
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 OK, I remembered well this album given the twenty years lapse between two hearings

It did not really change my mind; if previous albums were prog rock, this one is fully symphonic and conceptual, but it is PROGRESSIVE POP. Still good though

 

 

ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* Eldorado: A Symphony progressive rock album and reviews Prog Related
(Studio Album, 1974)
Avg: 4.21/5
from 14 ratings
ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA* "Eldorado: A Symphony"
Review (Permanent link) by Hugues Chantraine
Posted 3:17:51 AM EST, 3/7/2006

SPECIAL COLLABORATOR (Honorary Collaborator)
3 stars   So far, I have rated ELO a little over their own real value (giving them a half-star over what I believe they really deserve – except for the debut album), but with this album, usually regarded by a lot of progheads as their masterpiece: I feel I have to set the record straight! If most progheads look down unnecessarily on previous album, they generally tend to regard this one a bit too highly. Yes, it is fully symphonic and conceptual (and therefore progressive in its own right), but it is POP rather than ROCK (something previous album were not) and just for that ELO loses a bit of credential to this reviewer’s eyes.

But please do not let me be a party pooper as the songwriting on this album is still phenomenal - even though only written by Lynne himself, it must’ve been arranged by the whole group. With this album, Lynne actually veers away (finally some might say) from his Fab Four infatuation, but I feel this might be exactly where the weakness in this album lies. Although still plainly an ELO album and in itself a small tour de force, songwriting-wise it does not really resemble any other album of theirs. I think that my main gripe about this album is that the strings and full orchestras are over-used a tad (ton?) too much for my tastes. But some of the evident melodies of previous albums are lacking and even the hit Can’t Get It INTO My Head is not catchy for me.

Funnily enough, it is the album that most everyone is ready to laud to the skies, and I personally cannot help feeling that ELO just missed the holy grail by a few hairs had they been a bit less pretentious with this one. But nevertheless, this album should be the proof to dubitative progheads, that ELO has its own full place in the Archives.
 
 
 
 
 


Sean.... great review as always.. but why should they lose credibility for being stressing songwriting over instrumental pyrotechnics.  The Beatles at their most prog were still a pop band at heart, Yes, to some,  were nothing more than a supped up pop band.  Pop and rock are merely sematic and different to everyone.  It is not impossible to be a quote 'pop' band and still rock, and to be a rock band and still be pop.  Honestly that's why I was so passionate about having ELO included, it is not standard fare prog and as prog fans the last think we should be is close-minded especially. PA's should be an outlet for all things prog, not just people's main conceptions of it. ELO's main influence was the Beatles... it should be no surprise that their stuff comes across as more popish.  Last time I checked though... it's still rock and roll to me.

would love to carry on with this... but I'm late to work as it is...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 12:07

Just a general note (I put it in another thread too), but could members refrain from posting copies of their own reviews in the forum too. If people wish to read the review, they will do so in the reviews part of the site.

If you wish to seek occasional feedback on a specific review, post a link to it.


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