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Tony R 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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 Posted: February 19 2006 at 13:31 |
 Tony Fisher wrote:
But they are far more prog than Rush and loads of others on the site.
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Ha!
Rush are far more progressive than the vast majority of bands on the Archive. Whether they are a Prog Rock band is another thing all together.Seeing as they were around in the mid to late seventies and were referred to as a Prog Rock band then and over 75% of the bands listed here weren't then it's a moot point. If you subscribe to the theory that Prog Rock refers exclusively to the 70s (and many do) then Rush qualify.
Just because you do not appreciate their work does not mean you have to belittle them.Your post is ignorant in the literal sense of the word.
Edited by Tony R
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 13:35 |
arnold stirrup wrote:
Over the years I've grown to like SD enough
to own their entire discography. My fave is Countdown To Ecstasy,
which I'd recommend to anyone interested in checking them out.
SD makes intelligent jazz/rock/pop music which also happens
to include many catchy hooks. But it is also music which, if
approached beyond the surface level, can be quite rewarding in terms of
complexity and sophistication. And Messers. Fagen and Becker have
the uncanny ability to make it look effortless.
Musically, I hear, and have always heard, a similiarity to Gentle
Giant's jazzier stuff. SD is to the right of GG to be sure, but I
hear the similiarities nonetheless.
Does SD belong on this site? I'd say probably not. But just because
they don't conform to the definition of prog as it applies here,
doesn't mean their music isn't sophisticated, complex, and eminently
recommendable, particularly to people who like a jazz flavor. (I think
micky said it better than me).
And the lyrics are cryptic, funny, and intelligent.
Who else could make a reference to avant-vocalist Cathy Berberian? (Your Gold Teeth)
And who else could write a song called Hey Nineteen about a
30-something man having a fling with a 19 year old girl, getting drunk
and high with her ("the Cuervo Gold, the fine Columbian..."), and have
lite FM stations play it in offices and malls across America? Only the
Dan could pull that off.
The name Steely Dan btw, is taken from the name of a sexual device mentioned in the novel Naked Lunch by William S. Burroughs. In case anyone was wondering.
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hahahha.... two of my favorite trivia bits have to do with the
Dan. Their name and the Chevy Chase connection. As far as
the lyrics.. you are spot on... my favorite. Everyone's gone to
the movies...  Nothing like perverted
neighbors showing porno flicks to underage kids hahahahha, and having
FM stations play it, as you say, in offices and malls across America...
solid!. As far as recommends... Aja is just a masterpiece....
along with Katy Lied.. and The Royal Scam, and Pretzel Logic.. I guess I recommend whatever you can get hahahah
Edited by micky
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 13:42 |
Tony R wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
But they are far more prog than Rush and loads of others on the site.
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Ha!
Rush are far more progressive than the vast majority of bands on the
Archive. Whether they are a Prog Rock band is another thing all
together.Seeing as they were around in the mid to late seventies and
were referred to as a Prog Rock band then and over 75% of the bands
listed here weren't then it's a moot point. If you subscribe to the
theory that Prog Rock refers exclusively to the 70s (and many do) then
Rush qualify.
Just because you do not appreciate their work does not mean you have
to belittle them.Your post is ignorant in the literal sense of the word. |
agreed I've seen much more substanitive debate on how long their prog
'phase' went on as opposed to whether they were prog during the
70's. That they were (for a time) is really a no brainer.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Blind Camel
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 17:20 |
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i dont see why having jazz influence rock isnt prog...steely dan isnt
straight rock, its like jazzish rockish ish ish which IS prog right??
steely dan should be on here, they incorporated the saxophone, electric
guitar, piano, into a fluid pop/rock outfit that is very unique. and i
think very progressive.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 17:45 |
I believe they were rejected by Collaborators.
Steely Dan aint a Prog Rock band nor do they qualify as a Prog-Related band because jazz-ish,rock-ish ish is just that,rock with some jazz-ish influences.They are,therefore, jazz-related not prog-related.
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Blind Camel
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 17:56 |
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thats what prog is....there are no rock bands with "prog influences" prog is not a defined sound.
therefore when you have rock with jazz influences it becomes prog....when you mix something like that it becomes progressive.
you could say, opeth is a death metal band with folkish influences. thats not prog.
or any prog band is a rock band with "so and so influences"
those influences in the music is what separates prog from normal rock
so jazzish rockish popish, is PROG in my book. steely dan are very talented progressive musicians.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 18:03 |
A lot of bands have Jazzy influence into Rock or POP, take Earth Wind & Fire, they had clear Jezz/Blues influenece and blended it with Funk and Soul , they added a whole horns line (Phoenix Horns) used synths, EVI Trumpets with Mellotron interface plus early vocoders like the Sonovox.
But they are Disco, as Steely Dan is pure and absolute POP with a jazzy influence as most Rock bands (Rock was born from Jazz and Blues).
On the other hand their are bands as Mahavishnu or artists like Jean Luc Ponty who usually are lumped in the Jazz section of record stores but have clear Progressive elements that go from Symphonic to Folk and for that reason deserve to be here.
About The Beatles, I'm not so sure if they should be here, but the fab 4 were influential to what we know as Progressive Rock Sgt Peppers was Psychedelia (Not Proto Prog IMO) but Abbey Road was very close to early Prog Rock.
Iván
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Blind Camel
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 18:07 |
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ah screw it
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arnold stirrup
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 188
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Posted: February 19 2006 at 22:05 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Steely Dan is pure and absolute POP with a jazzy influence as most Rock bands (Rock was born from Jazz and Blues).
On the other hand their are bands as Mahavishnu or artists like Jean Luc Ponty who usually are lumped in the Jazz section of record stores but have clear Progressive elements that go from Symphonic to Folk and for that reason deserve to be here.
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I agree with your second statement, however regarding SD, I think you're doing a little "lumping" of your own with the term "pure and absolute pop with a jazzy influence." This may apply to some of their music, but not all. In SD's music one can find elements of pop, rock, jazz, and progressive rock.
And the "pop" element is frequently more jazz related than rock related.
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So much music. So little time.
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: February 20 2006 at 00:13 |
ken4musiq wrote:
arnold stirrup wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
I could never understand why an excellent drummer like Steve Gadd wasted his talents on them. |
I saw SG play with Dan, as well as with Paul Simon. Never thought his talents were wasted with either. Matter of fact, he was an excellent fit for both.
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agreed . . His solo on Aja is classic, esp with that stick click. He also wrote that legendary intro for Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover. Simon is one of the great American songwriters of the last fifty years. He was a Brill Building hack before returing to his old school mate, what was his name Garfunkel or something. Gadd is also on the S and G live from Central Park video. Anyway I wish I could have wasted my talents with either SD of PS. |
Aja is THE album to test your speakers with. Engineered to perfection. And Gadd did not waste his talents on that one! One of his best moments.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20251
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Posted: February 20 2006 at 03:04 |
Tony Fisher wrote:
Steely Dan are great but not really prog. They were never really a proper band either, just Becker, fagen and assorted session players. But the guitar work on Reeling in the Years is amazing and many other songs are classics.
But they are far more prog than Rush, Radiohead, Queen, The Beatles and loads of others on the site.
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As usual, I shall agree to diagree with you,especiallyin the last statement of yours
But I am worried though
You actually agreed with me again in the first part of your post
This is getting worrysome
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: March 03 2006 at 16:46 |
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Steely Dan is a very progressive songwriting duo that I love to listen to often. However, they don't belong in a prog site like this one. They really are in a category all their own. I really don't consider Zappa prog, either, for the same reason. SD has made incredible music and I suspect that Fagan's new solo album will be up to his usual high standards. My favorite is AJA, followed by Royal Scam, Countdown to Ecstasy, and Katy Lied. While I'm sure every prog artist would agree that they are impeccable writers and lyricists, few would say that they were influenced by them. Of course, that's just IMHO!
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: March 05 2006 at 14:05 |
Steely Dan had something that most so called
Progressive bands couldnt pull off...Intelligent lyrics
that paint a poetic picture. From Countdown to
Esctasy through at least the Royal Scam few can
boast such a run. On par with the best of Pink Floyd,
Genesis, Alice Cooper, David Bowie etc they created
an original style of rock music. Brilliant
upon close examination.
And yes they were more progressive than Rush.
Edited by DallasBryan
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: March 05 2006 at 14:32 |
Tony R wrote:
[QUOTE=Tony Fisher]Rush are
far more progressive than the vast majority of bands
on the Archive. Whether they are a Prog Rock band is
another thing all together.Seeing as they were
around in the mid to late seventies and were referred
to as a Prog Rock band then and over 75% of the
bands listed here weren't then it's a moot point. If you
subscribe to the theory that Prog Rock refers
exclusively to the 70s (and many do) then Rush
qualify. |
Rush was about as progressive as Elton John was
in those days. Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes, ELP and
Utopia generally defined what most english
speaking markets considered Progressive Rock.
Having many keyboards and synthesizers as part of
the vehicle. Rush, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin etc,
made a form of Hard Rock that had Progressive
tendancies. Rush's lyrics were the reason that many
considered them maybe progressive, but upon later
analysis found them to be purveyors of childrens
fantasty myths and not on a maturity level with the
afore mentioned bands. Who showed much more
intelligence.
Rush peak period produced A Farewell to KIngs and
maybe Moving Pictures, two albums that would not
hold up very well in debate compared to say ELO's
No Answer or Eldorado which cant even get approval
to being true progressive rock by this site. Both of
which show more intelligence and progressive
structures than the best Rush ever did. Now if Geddy
would have shut his mouth from goofy fairy tales and
let the band make instrumentals they werent too bad
musically. Saw them live several times on the 2112
and A Farewell to Kings tours. Good backup band to
the big boys.
RUSH could be considered early PROG METAL, they
can wear that jacket.
Edited by DallasBryan
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kenmeyerjr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 30 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 235
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 23:39 |
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Steely Dan...not progressive in the least, but one incredible band (so to speak...mainly two guys and session players). Everything up to and including The Royal Scam I consider to be gems (at one point way back then I even tracked down You Gotta Walk it Like You Talk it or You are Gonna Lose That Beat, an album they made before they were the Dan). I like their earlier stuff, before they relied so much on keyboards and that smooth jazz sound. Having said that, no one writes lyrics like those guys.
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If you like art of musicians, check my site (the music section) and tell me what you think! http://www.kenmeyerjr.com
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steely dan
