Gentle Giant HAS BEEN HIP-HOP SAMPLED!!!

Asyte2c00 wrote: Hip-Hop is the recycled genre of music.  people sample songs and fail to create poingant music.    I anticipate someone to counter the statement above by saying prog bands like the flower kings and wobbler recyle classsic symphonic bands' music, like elp, yes, genesis, gg, ect...   well, at least the flower kings and wobbler have talent.

hahahah.... I can't believe I'm doing this because I'd just as soon listen to my wives damn country albums then listen to hip-hop BUT.......

that's a crap arguement if I've ever heard one.... and a bit elitist but we're prog fans so that is excused.  Let me make a  example...

I could sample bits of music and end of with what.... a damn mess that's  what you'd have.  If music is an art.... and previous jokes aside... I hope it still is.... the samples are meer colours the artist uses to flesh out his composition.  Hip-Hop is lyrically not musically driven.  To say that they have no talent says to me that you could step in there and do a similar quality work..... HAH!!!!!.  First off, you'd probably get your pants run up a flagpole for being a poseur (oh wait that was in my day... today you'd probably get shot hahahahha).  Listen.... it's a different art form that does not speak to many of us... and isn't intened to..... don't mistake that for lack of talent. The talent is in the creation, you use whatever means available to create.


Edited by micky

ivan_2068 wrote: micky wrote: . The talent is in the creation, you use whatever means available to create. Wise words Micky, but sampling a couple of chords by Gentle Giant and adding computer beat plus bass and repeating it 100 times is not creation. Taking for example Puictures at an Exhibition, adding complete sections, making new and 100% different arrangements, that's creation. I'll go further, in the late 70's there was a Disco band who made a song based in Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, it was horrendous according to my taste (Like painting The Gioconda with a Beisball cap  and the New York Yankees uniform ), but it was creative, because they added new arrangements, a complete rhythm section and despite  a terrible electric guitar and drums. Iván

thanks Ivan... I'm not passing judgement if it is legal...right or wrong... but to say it masks a lack of talent.. BAHHH!!!!  I heard an interesting story on NPR (National Public Radio) about the art of Graffitti.  Facinating story..... to the high minded... sure it may be the work of no talent hacks,  what it is the purest form of art.....self expression.

micky wrote: thanks Ivan... I'm not passing judgement if it is legal...right or wrong... Neither me Micky, but copying a chord, adding some computer created beats and repeating this same chord 173 times is no creation, it's only an easy way to get money using other guy's talent. In this case I didn't used the words legal, right or wrong, only talent and lack of it IMO.  but to say it masks a lack of talent.. BAHHH!!!!  For me it is, sorry, but that's ny 100% honest opiniopn, not based in taste, because I hate Disco Music as much as I dislike Rap or Hip Hop, biut I recognize creation in the Fith's rework I mentioned before. I heard an interesting story on NPR (National Public Radio) about the art of Graffitti.  Facinating story..... to the high minded... sure it may be the work of no talent hacks,  what it is the purest form of art.....self expression. As long as they don't use your wall  I live 5 blocks from a stadium, and I painted my wall 15 times in the last 4 years to erase the purest form of art from my property,  so please don't mention it With the money I wasted painting my wall I could have bought at least 100 CD's of real art or the new engravings by Roger Dean. Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: micky wrote: oh goodie... I love breaking out the blue font thanks Ivan... I'm not passing judgement if it is legal...right or wrong... Neither me Micky, but copying a chord, adding some computer created beats and repeating this same chord 173 times is no creation, it's only an easy way to get money using other guy's talent. see previous posts for my thoughts on that.....  sampling is an art form in hip-hop. I don't understand the why's.... it just is. In this case I didn't used the words legal, right or wrong, only talent and lack of it IMO.  but to say it masks a lack of talent.. BAHHH!!!!  For me it is, sorry, but that's ny 100% honest opiniopn, not based in taste, because I hate Disco Music as much as I dislike Rap or Hip Hop, biut I recognize creation in the Fith's rework I mentioned before. which was a great example... I remember that from back in the days.. (loved disco hahahah).  I just don't agree with sweeping generalizations like that....  I think it is an art form (musical art-form that is) that is not understood by many of us.... I sure don't but that's why I don't generalize about it either. I heard an interesting story on NPR (National Public Radio) about the art of Graffitti.  Facinating story..... to the high minded... sure it may be the work of no talent hacks,  what it is the purest form of art.....self expression. As long as they don't use your wall  I live 5 blocks from a stadium, and I painted my wall 15 times in the last 4 years to erase the purest form of art from my property,  so please don't mention it With the money I wasted painting my wall I could have bought at least 100 CD's of real art or the new engravings by Roger Dean. hahahha.... don't lie to us hahahah... I know how much you love the arts even in it's simplist, rawest  forms of expression.   Then again maybe that's why I don't live in D.C. anymore, and now live in the pine forests of N.C...... a little less raw forms of expression  hhahahhah.  Good night Ivan! Iván Micky

micky wrote: [As long as they don't use your wall  I live 5 blocks from a stadium, and I painted my wall 15 times in the last 4 years to erase the purest form of art from my property,  so please don't mention it With the money I wasted painting my wall I could have bought at least 100 CD's of real art or the new engravings by Roger Dean. hahahha.... don't lie to us hahahah... I know how much you love the arts even in it's simplist, rawest  forms of expression.   Then again maybe that's why I don't live in D.C. anymore, and now live in the pine forests of N.C...... a little less raw forms of expression  hhahahhah.  Good night Ivan! Iván Micky

I don't lie you. I love my wall in the plain color I choosed and for which I paid a guy that charges 75 bucks a day plus the paint, the front of my house has 25 meters and the wall is 3 Mts high, so it takes at least 3 days.

My problem is that I moved to a district called La Molina, which is 20 Kms from downtown and 10 years ago used to be the end of the fu**ing world.

I have to drive 90 minutes to my office each day (twice) just because I wanted privacy and searched for a residential zone far from the city.

About 7 years ago an a$$hole donated his lands in another district which is our limit (I live in the further limit of La Molina) to the club from which I'm fan, and this guys built a fabulous stadium with 300 suites (Almost bought one but too expensive) and place for 75,000 fans.

This team plays from 2 to 4 times each month, and the Peruvian hooligans (who like to steal and destroy anything in their way) paint my house after each game.

But the graffitis are not the only problem, our mayor authotized gas stations and chain markets due to that fu**ing stadium.

I hate the fans, and I hate the graffitis. Now I live far from the world, haveto drive a lot but I still have the same problems as in the city.

Iván

 

king volta wrote: ^^^^that really blows man. Perhaps you should get some Police action going on if it costs you that much money?

Hey man, be real, I live in Perú, the third world, football (soccer) is a passion, no police is able or want to control 25,000 of vandals (who carry wood logs, stones and knifes) and come from the poorest and most aggressive parts of the city to watch their team.

Some streets have got permission from the council to put fences and gates stopping the circulation of vehicles, I have the bad luck to live an avenue, so it's impossible.

I will sell this house to a company (Which is sad, because it's only 12 years old and very pretty, this companies normally throw it down and probably build a market) and try to buy a department in the 20th floor of any building in the city, being a lawyer I can't move further, and don't have the bucks enough to buy a big house in a condominium with pool and pretty people around me.

Iván

 

I've sampled GG before... shoot me.

Ben-P wrote: I've sampled GG before... shoot me.

Don't tempt them.

As for that whole rap/hip-hop and art thingy... rap is mostly about the lyrics and the lyrics are mostly about 'b*tches, blunts and money'. Definitely not always, however. Some are really good. I'm not familiar with the lyrics from that Gentle Giant - sampled song, but that's where the quality of the song should be sought first, IMO. Of course, if you want good lyrics, you'd be better off simply reading poetry, anyway. But this pertains to prog lyrics, too. If you want good lyrics, read poetry.  Then see how prog and hip-hop lyrics stack up against the work of poets per se. Somehow I think, barring a few exceptions, they really pale in comparison. And the exceptions can be found both in prog and in hip-hop, in the same numbers, I think.

Furthermore... as I understand prog/classical/jazz/etc. influenced rap/hip-hop isn't treated as an art form here because it's about mixing something elevated with something base, or rather bringing something elevated down to the level of something base.

Hmm... prog = classical/folk/jazz mixed with rock/metal...

Are any of you here familiar with Jacques Loussier? He makes extremely skilfull jazzy interpretations of Bach pieces. Not prog per se, of course, but a proggy attitude. I read someone say that because of the jazz element the interpretations are like (sic) graffitti on a gothic cathedral... I also read here that someone's classically-educated musician friend said Gentle Giant sh*t all over Bach... there you go. Don't mention Reneissance to some classical music fans or Jethro Tull to some folk fans, or you will get head-butted.

One more thing... mixing something elevated with something base... look at the novels standing on your shelves, count them, remember the ones you like and try to read something on the origins and development of the novel. Mikhail Bakhtin would be the best choice here.     

 

 

BaldFriede wrote: I know these Loussier interpretations of Bach. Anyone familiar with the baroque tradition of interpreting music will greatly appreciate them; they capture the spirit of Bach (who was a great improvisor himself and would probably have shuddered at the note-by-note interpretation of his works, which is standard in classical music).

Very true, yet the person I was talking about was absolutely outraged by the treatment Bach received at the hands of Loussier.

Edited by Manunkind

King Volta wrote:

Ah, yeah that's quite a situation...I'm sorry if that means absolutely anything coming from a 16 year old geek in an online progressive music archive forum...

By the contrary King Volta I thank your concerns for other person's problems, if everybody acted in the same way, the world would be a better place to live in.

One of the main reasions I studied laws is that when I finished high school (I was your age) I used to believe the police and the judicial system really worked, that if somebody abused of his rights causing you problems, police would act inmediately to protect the innocent citizen.

But sadly with the practice I found this is not true, the police is bureocratic, you make a complain and you have to take proves, it's not enough to take pictures of a painted wall (They say that you can have painted it yourself ), but you have to take the vandal with the hands wet in paint and better if you got a picture of the guy in the exact moment he was painting the wall.

I used to have a small close circuit camera, but this guys stole it  in the face of the police that was very busy making close vigilance to the gas station with mini market (Where they sell liquor to this people) in front of my house (Because Shell pays some extra bucks to the cops).

And even if you got everything, what do you win? This kids claim they are poor and we are rich (Ah... but they have enough money to pay the entrance tickett to the stadium 4 times a month what could reach 40 bucks in total and even to travel with the team to cities inside Perú). Police gets them, take a picture, steals the little money they have in the pockets and leave them after 10 minutes.

The mayor answers they don'thave enough people to take care of each house (But they charge us 35 bucks to each house for Private Police).

It's all sh!t, corruption and abuse of the law.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068