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MikeEnRegalia 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 21206
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 Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:04 |
 Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
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I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major influence.
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Iq has covered abba and has them as a major influence. Lets include ABBA
The main influence to early 70's prog will always be CLASSICAL music.
As can be clearly seen on the long compositions with loads of musical themes that occours only once.
Also another genre that has had alot of influence on prog is jazz, thats where you get the long solos and improvisations from.
And ofcourse many prog artist's of the 70's will ofcourse enjoy the most famous POP band of the 60's. Many of them wanted the commercial success of the beatles ofcourse!
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^ In fact the Abba songwriters wrote some progressive stuff. The intro to Steve Vai's Fire Garden Suite is actually a piece written by them ... 
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:04 |
RoyalJelly wrote:
For those in need of a history brush-up concerning all things prog:
1st concept album: Beatles (Sgt. Peppers - or Zappa's Freak Out, perhaps)
1st pop/rock song in 7/8: Beatles (All You Need is Love)
1st pop-rock song with electronic effects & tape loops: Beatles (Tomorow
Never Knows)
1st pop/rock/Indian song with sitar & Tablas, in 5/8: Beatles (Within You
Without You)
Ist pop/rock song with Mellotron: Beatles (Strawberry Fields Forever)
1st pop/rock album with Synthesizer: Beatles (Abbey Road)
1st pop/rock song with classical string quartet: Beatles (Elanor Rigby)
Any questions? (Actually, if all the people threatening to abandon the site
over this would actually do so, it would only improve the quality.)
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I notice you have called them pop-rock...which ofcourse should not be confused with prog rock, and i think the rolling stones was earlier with the usage of the sitar.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:05 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major influence.
|
Iq has covered abba and has them as a major influence. Lets include ABBA
The main influence to early 70's prog will always be CLASSICAL music.
As can be clearly seen on the long compositions with loads of musical themes that occours only once.
Also another genre that has had alot of influence on prog is jazz, thats where you get the long solos and improvisations from.
And ofcourse many prog artist's of the 70's will ofcourse enjoy the most famous POP band of the 60's. Many of them wanted the commercial success of the beatles ofcourse!
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^ In fact the Abba songwriters wrote some progressive stuff. The intro to Steve Vai's Fire Garden Suite is actually a piece written by them ...
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Yes i like ABBA lets add them...
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 21206
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:07 |
^  Maybe Mike Portnoy will form an Abba cover band at some point - then we'll have to add them. BTW: He'c currently rehearsing with his new The Who cover band ... 
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:09 |
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:10 |
Long compositions with loads of musical themes are an recurring error
to define progressive rock, because most of the long suites are
separeted short songs linked artificially to clock 20 minutes.
Progressive Rock is an album oriented genre and you can see much more
different themes in Abbey Road, White Album, Sgt Peppers than in many
acclaimed progressive rock albuns.
There are some prog bands that repeat the same formula over and over
again. For example, why do you think Selling England by The Pound is
the best rated Genesis album? Although Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme are
fantastic, they have less different themes and sounds than SEBTP. In
the first two Banks used to use lots of organ in the same tone. In
SEBTP he uses more piano, ARP, (besides the organ) giving more
interesting textures to the songs.
If The Beatles linked their songs to clock more than 15 minutes, people would think they were prog? 
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:15 |
akin wrote:
Long compositions with loads of musical themes are an recurring error to define progressive rock, because most of the long suites are separeted short songs linked artificially to clock 20 minutes. Progressive Rock is an album oriented genre and you can see much more different themes in Abbey Road, White Album, Sgt Peppers than in many acclaimed progressive rock albuns.
There are some prog bands that repeat the same formula over and over again. For example, why do you think Selling England by The Pound is the best rated Genesis album? Although Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme are fantastic, they have less different themes and sounds than SEBTP. In the first two Banks used to use lots of organ in the same tone. In SEBTP he uses more piano, ARP, (besides the organ) giving more interesting textures to the songs.
If The Beatles linked their songs to clock more than 15 minutes, people would think they were prog?
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Nope i said that the progressive artists had alot of their influence from CLASSICAL artists which very often composed longer suites, and that you could see that influence from similar compositional techniques that resembeled much more the compostinal techniques of the CLASSICAL composers than The beatles.
I just wanted to point out what LED the first prog bands to write such long pieces of music.
Edited by Lindsay Lohan
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:17 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a
Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major
influence. |
Of course, Their Satanic Majesties Request was a trial of doing
something like Sgt. Peppers and the other psychedelic acts of that
time. The difference between Beatles and The Rolling Stones is
that Beatles really moved their sound towards a classical and jazz
influenced direction (White Album, Abbey Road) while Rolling Stones
made Satanic Majesties to follow the psychedelic trend and abandoned
the idea soon (Beggar's Banquet and Let it Bleed has few of
psychedelic/experimental on them).
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 21206
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:18 |
Yes. He had Led Zep, Beatles and The Who cover projects, and with Dream Theater he performed The Number of the Beast, Master of Puppets and most recently Dark Side of the Moon.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:19 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Yes. He had Led Zep, Beatles and The Who cover projects, and with Dream Theater he performed The Number of the Beast, Master of Puppets and most recently Dark Side of the Moon.
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Hmm i find it strange that he has not covered the classic PROG band's like genesis or yes yet...
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:21 |
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
Long compositions with loads of
musical themes are an recurring error to define progressive rock,
because most of the long suites are separeted short songs linked
artificially to clock 20 minutes. Progressive Rock is an album oriented
genre and you can see much more different themes in Abbey Road, White
Album, Sgt Peppers than in many acclaimed progressive rock albuns.
There
are some prog bands that repeat the same formula over and over again.
For example, why do you think Selling England by The Pound is the best
rated Genesis album? Although Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme are fantastic,
they have less different themes and sounds than SEBTP. In the first two
Banks used to use lots of organ in the same tone. In SEBTP he uses more
piano, ARP, (besides the organ) giving more interesting textures to the
songs.
If The Beatles linked their songs to clock more than 15 minutes, people would think they were prog?
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Nope i said that the progressive artists had alot of their influence
from CLASSICAL artists which very often composed longer suites, and
that you could see that influence from similar compositional techniques
that resembeled much more the compostinal techniques of the CLASSICAL
composers than The beatles.
I just wanted to point out what LED the first prog bands to write such long pieces of music. |
And the Beatles incorporated Classical influences in their late career.
The difference is that they didn't linked the songs to make it clocks
15 minutes.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 21206
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:22 |
^ maybe he will. But I have a recording of Dream Theater performing with Greg Howe, it's quite nice.
But I rather think that they might cover a Rush album, or that Portnoy will form a Rush cover band. I'd really like to hear that. The only question is: who would be the appropriate singer?
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:24 |
akin wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major influence.
|
Of course, Their Satanic Majesties Request was a trial of doing something like Sgt. Peppers and the other psychedelic acts of that time. The difference between Beatles and The Rolling Stones is that Beatles really moved their sound towards a classical and jazz influenced direction (White Album, Abbey Road) while Rolling Stones made Satanic Majesties to follow the psychedelic trend and abandoned the idea soon (Beggar's Banquet and Let it Bleed has few of psychedelic/experimental on them).
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Im just pointing out that the beatles was far from being the ONLY band that where trying to be experimental besides their jazz and classical influences are almost non-exsistent and forexample such artists like Procul Harum and Moody Blues show alot more clear influence from Classical and jazz music mixed with pop-rock.
Besides what is generally called the first prog album "Court of the crimson king" does not show any influence of The beatles music.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:26 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ maybe he will. But I have a recording of Dream Theater performing with Greg Howe, it's quite nice.
But I rather think that they might cover a Rush album, or that Portnoy will form a Rush cover band. I'd really like to hear that. The only question is: who would be the appropriate singer?
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Yes i would think DT would do a great...voice and why not Labrie...he got quite a hmm squeaky voice.
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:27 |
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a
Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major
influence.
|
Of course, Their Satanic Majesties Request was a
trial of doing something like Sgt. Peppers and the other psychedelic
acts of that time. The difference between Beatles and The Rolling
Stones is that Beatles really moved their sound towards a classical and
jazz influenced direction (White Album, Abbey Road) while Rolling
Stones made Satanic Majesties to follow the psychedelic trend and
abandoned the idea soon (Beggar's Banquet and Let it Bleed has few of
psychedelic/experimental on them).
|
Im just pointing out that the beatles was far from being the ONLY
band that where trying to be experimental besides their jazz and
classical influences are almost non-exsistent and forexample such
artists like Procul Harum and Moody Blues show alot more clear
influence from Classical and jazz music mixed with pop-rock.
Besides what is generally called the first prog album "Court of the
crimson king" does not show any influence of The beatles music. |
A great prejudice to say In the Court of the Crimson King is the first
progressive album. The Nice, Procol Harum and The Moody Blues were
doing progressive rock before King Crimson was formed.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:30 |
akin wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major influence.
|
Of course, Their Satanic Majesties Request was a trial of doing something like Sgt. Peppers and the other psychedelic acts of that time. The difference between Beatles and The Rolling Stones is that Beatles really moved their sound towards a classical and jazz influenced direction (White Album, Abbey Road) while Rolling Stones made Satanic Majesties to follow the psychedelic trend and abandoned the idea soon (Beggar's Banquet and Let it Bleed has few of psychedelic/experimental on them).
|
Im just pointing out that the beatles was far from being the ONLY band that where trying to be experimental besides their jazz and classical influences are almost non-exsistent and forexample such artists like Procul Harum and Moody Blues show alot more clear influence from Classical and jazz music mixed with pop-rock.
Besides what is generally called the first prog album "Court of the crimson king" does not show any influence of The beatles music.
|
A great prejudice to say In the Court of the Crimson King is the first progressive album. The Nice, Procol Harum and The Moody Blues were doing progressive rock before King Crimson was formed.
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Aha but neither of the bands show some influence from the beatles! (And neither of them is listed as prog rock) And im not saying that is has to be 20 minutes long to be progressive but i dont hear the classical compostional style like you find in forexample Gentle Giant that usually never write long songs. I have only heard them use symphonic arrangements on standard pop songs.
Edited by Lindsay Lohan
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:31 |
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ maybe he will. But I have a recording of Dream Theater performing with Greg Howe, it's quite nice.
But I rather think that they might cover a Rush album, or that Portnoy will form a Rush cover band. I'd really like to hear that. The only question is: who would be the appropriate singer?
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Yes i would think DT would do a great...voice and why not Labrie...he got quite a hmm squeaky voice.
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Perfect! ...
squeaky in a nice way...
He will fit it very well IMO
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:33 |
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a
Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major
influence.
|
Of course, Their Satanic Majesties Request was a
trial of doing something like Sgt. Peppers and the other psychedelic
acts of that time. The difference between Beatles and The Rolling
Stones is that Beatles really moved their sound towards a classical and
jazz influenced direction (White Album, Abbey Road) while Rolling
Stones made Satanic Majesties to follow the psychedelic trend and
abandoned the idea soon (Beggar's Banquet and Let it Bleed has few of
psychedelic/experimental on them).
|
Im just pointing out that the beatles was far from being the ONLY
band that where trying to be experimental besides their jazz and
classical influences are almost non-exsistent and forexample such
artists like Procul Harum and Moody Blues show alot more clear
influence from Classical and jazz music mixed with pop-rock.
Besides what is generally called the first prog album "Court of the
crimson king" does not show any influence of The beatles music.
|
A great prejudice to say In the Court of the Crimson
King is the first progressive album. The Nice, Procol Harum and The
Moody Blues were doing progressive rock before King Crimson was formed.
|
Aha but neither of the bands show some influence from the beatles!
(And neither of them is listed as prog rock) And im not
saying that is has to be 20 minutes long to be progressive but i dont
hear the classical compostional style like you find in forexample
Gentle Giant that usually never write long songs. I have only heard
them use symphonic arrangements on standard pop songs. |
My greatest complain in this site is that Moody Blues, The Nice and Procol Harum are not considered as progressive rock.
About Gentle Giant, which band used this kind of compositional style?
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:36 |
RoyalJelly wrote:
For those in need of a history brush-up concerning all things prog:
1st concept album: Beatles (Sgt. Peppers - or Zappa's Freak Out, perhaps)
1st pop/rock song in 7/8: Beatles (All You Need is Love)
1st pop-rock song with electronic effects & tape loops: Beatles (Tomorow
Never Knows)
1st pop/rock/Indian song with sitar & Tablas, in 5/8: Beatles (Within You
Without You)
Ist pop/rock song with Mellotron: Beatles (Strawberry Fields Forever)
1st pop/rock album with Synthesizer: Beatles (Abbey Road)
1st pop/rock song with classical string quartet: Beatles (Elanor Rigby)
Any questions? (Actually, if all the people threatening to abandon the site
over this would actually do so, it would only improve the quality.)
|
Strictly speaking, Sgt Pepper is not a concept album. Only the first 2 tracks fit the original vision of an album by an "alternate" band, after that (as Lennon admitted) they couldn't be bothered with it and it became an just album of songs (even with the Sgt Pepper reprise on side 2).
Love You To is the first Beatles song with tabla and sitar (although Norwegian Wood featured sitar before that).
Only the instrumental break of Within You Without You is in 5/8.
Yesterday predates Eleanor Rigby as a song with a string quartet (although it has guitar as well).
You could also have had -
1st pop song with feedback (and dog noises) - I Feel Fine
1st pop song with backwards vocals - Rain
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: February 16 2006 at 07:37 |
akin wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
akin wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Lindsay Lohan wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ which Rolling Stones album would that be? |
Their satanic majesties request
|
I don't know that one - but I've never heard a prog artist cover a Rolling Stones song, or name the Rolling Stones as a major influence.
|
Of course, Their Satanic Majesties Request was a trial of doing something like Sgt. Peppers and the other psychedelic acts of that time. The difference between Beatles and The Rolling Stones is that Beatles really moved their sound towards a classical and jazz influenced direction (White Album, Abbey Road) while Rolling Stones made Satanic Majesties to follow the psychedelic trend and abandoned the idea soon (Beggar's Banquet and Let it Bleed has few of psychedelic/experimental on them).
|
Im just pointing out that the beatles was far from being the ONLY band that where trying to be experimental besides their jazz and classical influences are almost non-exsistent and forexample such artists like Procul Harum and Moody Blues show alot more clear influence from Classical and jazz music mixed with pop-rock.
Besides what is generally called the first prog album "Court of the crimson king" does not show any influence of The beatles music.
|
A great prejudice to say In the Court of the Crimson King is the first progressive album. The Nice, Procol Harum and The Moody Blues were doing progressive rock before King Crimson was formed.
|
Aha but neither of the bands show some influence from the beatles! (And neither of them is listed as prog rock) And im not saying that is has to be 20 minutes long to be progressive but i dont hear the classical compostional style like you find in forexample Gentle Giant that usually never write long songs. I have only heard them use symphonic arrangements on standard pop songs.
|
My greatest complain in this site is that Moody Blues, The Nice and Procol Harum are not considered as progressive rock.
About Gentle Giant, which band used this kind of compositional style?
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Again Gentle giant presents alot of musical themes in a frentic pace and uses scales and themes that is very often used in classical music. The band that i have heard (Sometimes) that gets the closest to gentle giant is perhaps Spocks beard.
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