ELP top 3???

Why is it that when most people refer to the prog Giants they refer to: Genesis Yes and ELP.  Elp's highest ranked album ranks as #45 according to the list on this site.  That puts quite a few bands ahead of ELP.

I'm not trying to bash them here, I just don't understand why on this site, people write Genesis, Yes and ELP, and on this site ELP sits as #45. 
The first two are right, but Pink Floyd, J-Tull, King Crimson, Rush, Camel, DT, Riverside, VdGG, Gentle Giant, Porcupine Tree, Änglagård, Caravan, Marillion, Pain of Salvation, Tool, Supertramp and Focus sit above ELP as top 3 contenders according to the collective opinions of the people of this site. 
That makes 17 bands that aren't getting what they deserve whenever someone says Genesis, Yes and ELP.  ELP's second best is #56 and 3rd is #76  according to this site and their 4th best doesn't make the top 100.

Again I'm not bashing them just trying to understand why we bash 17+ other bands that deserve that top 3 mention more.

Edited by video vertigo

I know the list is based on Ratings, thats why it matters.  The 20th highest band rated by the reveiwers of this site is ELP.  Which most people call a prog giant, and ELP is often mentioned on this site with the likes of Yes and Genesis.  Thats what has me confused.

I think Phil has got it exactly right. A lot of ELP reviews I've read here knock off a few stars for tracks like "Benny the Bouncer" and "Are you ready Eddy", plus there are a lot of people who don't like them.

In my recent band chart, which was based on the PA Top 100, ELP came 12th, just below Dream Theater.

Funny, I never noticed they are ranked so low. It's probably because there are a lot of people who hate them. Personally I don't like them very much, but they are definitely one of the most important prog bands.

ELP produced some great music but sadly let themselves down with the likes of 'benny' and 'eddie' tracks. then lost the plot after 'Works'.  But they all three stand tall both then and now (as I have seen all three recently and they were brilliant).>>

 

I love Benny and eddie.  My first ELP BSS was an 8 track and Bennie was the last number after KE9 3rd Impression.  I always liked that because the poly moog opening to Benny fit so well after that Moog test sequencing that ends KE 9.  I think that if they had used that sequence on the album, they could have put the 1st impression all on one side. 

 

Ii think a part of the problem is that ELP fans are more critical and less likely to rate all their albums a five like Genesis fans do.  I understand that not everyone will be able to get into ELP, like the three fates.  But I think that the imperative to neo-classicism that Emo whole heartedly espoused was the most important influence of prog.

The reason why Genesis is so important is because of their influence on neo-prog bands, Marillion, musical Pendragon, etc. When I was in college we joked about the neo-prog bands at the college radio station.  Each time we got an album we would say, abnother band that should sue Genesisi for stealing theri sound."  There legacy really lies with Gabriel and had he not become such a big player in his solo carreer, Genesis would not have become such a big player.  I do not hear alot of influence of early Genesis is new prog.  Six Degrees of Inner Tubulance has a lot of Peter Gabriel in it. So I think that Genesis influence separate from Gabriel is mute.  Where as you can hear the influence of Fripp, Yes and ELP in the new prog bands. There could be a band out there that could disprove this claim, I just have not heard it.

 

PS do not diminish Jethro Tull.  Of all the bands mentioned for me, Jethro Tull's legacy is the strongest overall; lyrics, music, concepts, ensemble, integration and experimentation with different elements; and it is based on the talents of one man. He created a prog sound that was uniquelly British as opposed to English;  it integrated Brit rock and jazz with old English and Celtic music.

Lord Qwerty's only problem with ELP is that they're very inconsistent. But he still enjoys their music, even if he is very selective with songs.

Legoman still doesn't think Qwerty should use third person...

Anyway!  ELP, in my opinion, gets a whole lot of credit for stuff that they never even earned.  When I was little I knew of bands like Pink Floyd, Moody Blues and ELP.  I didn't even hear of Yes until High School and Genesis until college!  So... you can understand how I was anxious to sit down and enjoy my first ELP album, a band that has been echoing in my head as being one of the best bands ever!  A Super GROUP!   I was soooo excited!  Buuttt... after listening to Brain Salad, Tarkus and Trilogy several times I decided to let the tenacious trio lay down and started to come to terms with the bore that is their music.  Truthfully, they are complex and they are all quite talented at their respected instruments but... together... nothing special.  Lots of long songs that never develop and none of them should ever write lyrics.  Thank god they didn't try too often.

Definately an over-rated band and not worthy of the title of 'Giant'.  Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd all the wayyyyy!

Never did they have the collaboration that Yes or Tull had.  Just a couple of good players in a austentacious group.  Singularly they are fantastic and deserve their fame but together... eh... nothing special.>>

 

 I think one should reconsider Trilogy and Karneveil 9.  Trliogy is an experimentaion in thematic transformation, a true attemp to write an art song in the context of the genre of rock.  Spoiled by those mediocre at best lyrics. 

 

KE9 is lyrically somewhat better, ELP  having brought in Lake's old pal Sinfield. the First Impression part 1 is is a piace that concieves of a rock song outside of the confines of pop song structures.  Not that there is anythig wrong wth pop.  I think that Genesis and Yes were at their best when they wrote good "songs." (Don't even really much like CTTE.) But ELP was never at its best when they wrote pop song material: Lucky Man, From the Beginning.

I usually visit many forums an Prog pages plus try to read all the books about Prog' availlable in this forgotten part of the world, and there are somee things in common:

1. People always talk about the big 5, 6 or 7 bands in Prog history.
2. 5 of them are always constant:
• Yes
• Genesis
• ELP
• King Crimson
• Pink Floyd
3. But despite being ELP a top 5, their albums are not rated so high.
4. Almost everybody agrees ELP had a very short career till they reached the peak and went downhill (From self titled to Brain Salad Surgery).
5. Nobody can forgive them for Love Beach and In the Hot Seat.
6. Many people think ELP represents the excesive pomp and self indulgence that almost destroyed Prog (I disagree, because that's exactly what I like more about ELP)
7. Keith Emerson shows are disgusting and even vulgar in some ocasions especially when he stabs organs or rubs a ribbon in his butt to make a sound.

Now my personal opinion:

1. ELP is a top band that contributed with Prog development.
2. ELP reached the peak with BSS in 1974, everything recorded after that has a lower level.
• Works I: Emerson's side is simply not in his level, Piano Concerto N° 1 is a mixture of several influences without feet and head. Lake's side is full of poppy ballads Carl's side is the best of the album, Side 4 is good, but the songs are too répetitive and long, would have been much better if lasted 50% less.
• Works II: Is just a collection of leftovers from other albums, they betrayed their fanbase and this contributed to loose popularity among progheads.
• Love Beach: Cheesy from the cover to the last note, not even Memoirs is near the average, self indulgent but low quality. They took revenge against the label that forced them to release this album, but the fans paid the bill and never forgave the trio.
• Black Moon: Much better but still not remotely near to the quality of early ELP
• In the Hot Seat: Good for two stars because of the studio version of Pictures at an Exhibuition, the rest is terrible.
• Re-Works (Brain Salad Perjury): Crap of the worst kind, a trance album that plays 5 or 6 different versions of Fanfare for the Common Man. The worst album a Prog band ever released. 
3. Man by man they aren't so strong as the three playing together, their solo careers is a prove of that.
4. Keith Emerson, great keyboardist, very energetic and charismatic, but IMO is far behind the level of technique by Wakeman, Moraz or Nocenzi to mention 3
5. Greg Lake: Execlent vocal range, but a bit emotionless IMO, as a bassist and guitarist he's not espectacular, great songwritter with weakness for soft poppy ballads.
6. Carl Palmer: Incredible with the bass dums, very good with the snares, but weak with the metals, great arrangements and a charismatic guy, top drummer.
7. ELP's career was going up, but they decided to stop recording for three years after Brain Salad Surgery. In 1997 they found another musical scenario, and they were trying to do exactly the same thing than in 1974 but without success and with  less imagination.
8. Having played with several labels, each one of the right owners has released two or three compilations of very low quality that didn't contributed with people who bought the albums just because the name ELP was on the label and all compilations are almost exact.
9. They have the best box set (The Return of the Manticore) along with Genesis Archives I (Because of The Lamb Live).

Iván

No, Shut up!  ELP rocks!  Buy all of their (early) albums!

<---luckyman_123