How do you write music?

The Lost Chord wrote: I play instruments all day, i am an avid flute, piano and guitar player and i have been playing piano for my whole life and i know music like i know math! But i cannot seem to create epic melodies, I can write songs easily, but i am never satisified with what comes out at the end...is there a formula people follow?  How is it these people made such great music back in the 70's and 60's, what was it about them!?!

Lord Qwerty's Advice on Art:

There are three factors in art. Time, technique, and talent. To create great art, you require at least two of them. Time alone yields a waste of time. Technique alone yields boredom. Talent alone yields slop. All three strung together yields genius.

Time is by far the easiest asset to acquire. You need to find yourself an area where you feel at piece and can roam through chords and notes at your leisure.

Technique is the middle sibiling of the three great assets of art. More impressive than time, but not as inspiring as talent. This requires patience to gain, though. The most skilled musicians take years to reach their peak. Practice, practice, practice... but too much practice can stifle your creative prowess through rigorous conditioning.

Talent is by far the most elusive facet of artistry. You don't obtain it per se. It's not necessarily ingrown, but not everyone has access to it at will. There are a few theories on how to gain it. The first and most difficult is to have a tragic event in your life. This will spur your conscience and imagination to create alternative landscapes so that you may avoid reality. Alas, not everyone is so lucky to lose their father in war or be abused as a child. Therefore, it is more feasible for some people to simply take as many drugs as possible.

I write it using my language: Música. Your Question is very valid, but weird. There is not a way to create something by just following a method. I know that many movies are made using somekind of "template" that works almost al time, but nobody can create a movie like "8 1/2" by following some kind of "instruction's package". You must concentrate, find out if you can do it, and then use method to put some order on your ideas. But if the problem is the idea, I'm sorry, but you are lost. at least until the idea finally reveales to you.

Do not listen to these wierdos who say there is no formula for writing music, they clearly don't know much about music. There are MOST CERTAINLY RULES! Did Bach just sit down and totally make crap up? Well he probably did, but it was a very formulaic approach. Why do you think there are different genres and styles of music? The reason is because there are different rules and formulas for each one. There ARE rules for blues. There ARE rules for Baroque. There ARE rules for Jazz. Anyone who claims that music is obtained by just doing whatever the hell you want is musically illiterate. They may be able to come up with some interesting stuff occassionally but that will be the exception. So if you want to learn to write some music you just need to learn the rules of the style you want to write.

I personally would suggest, if you have not done so, take some college level music theory classes. That helped me tremendously. One thing you will learn is tonal harmony from a classical perspective. Since prog artists are often influenced by classical forms, this would be very beneficial. You have to learn to walk before you can run. Learning the basics of tonal harmony will help when you get to the point when you want to start breaking the rules. You can't break the rules if you don't know the rules. Plus, once you know the rules for writing a 4 voice chorale in the style of Bach, anything you write will sound good. I'm not kidding. 4 voice chorales will then lead to keyboard pieces and then on to your own instruments. When I was taking music theory I would write chorales and have no idea what they would sound like (I have not taken an ear training course yet). Then when I heard them I was always amazed that they sounded so pleasing. All because I followed the rules

One thing I've found in my own experience is that it's much easier for me to write starting with a harmonic basis for the song. When I was a bit more inexperienced I always thought you just come up with a melody in your head and then add to it. That has proven to be much more difficult for me. Now I try to come up with a chordal model first and then add to that.

Also, my teachers always say, "Don't try and be creative," when you are first starting out. Start off doing the very cliche stuff. This will give you a firmer grasp on how harmony works. Plus most works are NOT very complicated harmonically. That includes prog. Most tunes follow very standard harmonic progressions. For example pretty much every jazz tune in the world is based on ii-V7-I chord progressions. Sure there are more things going on, but those are usually ornamental things, not the basis for the work.

Chew on that!

Edited by Goldenavatar

 

Follow the way that Goldenavatar described. The most innovative prog band perhaps was Gentle Giant, and its leader Kerry Minnear had a degree in composition.

So try taking musical classes, and on the other hand, study great literature and art - it is easier to create great form if it has some idea about it - especially transforming some recurring themes, representing that ideas, which also was way of composing great progressive songs.

Goldenavatar wrote: Do not listen to these wierdos who say there is no formula for writing music, they clearly don't know much about music. There are MOST CERTAINLY RULES! Did Bach just sit down and totally make crap up? Well he probably did, but it was a very formulaic approach. Why do you think there are different genres and styles of music? The reason is because there are different rules and formulas for each one. There ARE rules for blues. There ARE rules for Baroque. There ARE rules for Jazz. Anyone who claims that music is obtained by just doing whatever the hell you want is musically illiterate. They may be able to come up with some interesting stuff occassionally but that will be the exception. So if you want to learn to write some music you just need to learn the rules of the style you want to write. I personally would suggest, if you have not done so, take some college level music theory classes. That helped me tremendously. One thing you will learn is tonal harmony from a classical perspective. Since prog artists are often influenced by classical forms, this would be very beneficial. You have to learn to walk before you can run. Learning the basics of tonal harmony will help when you get to the point when you want to start breaking the rules. You can't break the rules if you don't know the rules. Plus, once you know the rules for writing a 4 voice chorale in the style of Bach, anything you write will sound good. I'm not kidding. 4 voice chorales will then lead to keyboard pieces and then on to your own instruments. When I was taking music theory I would write chorales and have no idea what they would sound like (I have not taken an ear training course yet). Then when I heard them I was always amazed that they sounded so pleasing. All because I followed the rules One thing I've found in my own experience is that it's much easier for me to write starting with a harmonic basis for the song. When I was a bit more inexperienced I always thought you just come up with a melody in your head and then add to it. That has proven to be much more difficult for me. Now I try to come up with a chordal model first and then add to that. Also, my teachers always say, "Don't try and be creative," when you are first starting out. Start off doing the very cliche stuff. This will give you a firmer grasp on how harmony works. Plus most works are NOT very complicated harmonically. That includes prog. Most tunes follow very standard harmonic progressions. For example pretty much every jazz tune in the world is based on ii-V7-I chord progressions. Sure there are more things going on, but those are usually ornamental things, not the basis for the work. Chew on that!

Those "formulas" only applies to organizing ideas. Perhaps I'n not a usician myself, but I do have a lot of friends that are into fusion or stuff like that. I also happen to have a "formulaic" friend. He has no inspiration at all, so his music clearly follow a path of "logic" key progressions, with very common chords, etc. Clichè, as you said. Believe me: with no inspiration to begin with, formulas will take over your work.

While I agree that it is somewhat important to know the rules before you break them, all the talent in the world will not help you write music if you aren't inspired.

There are many very talented musicians in the world who can't compose a lick (no pun intended). There are many (usually unknown) people in the world who can't play a lick but can compose great music.

I stand by my bold claim that most music is made by rules and formulas. I like to think of it this way: writing music is like cooking. There is a recipe which you follow to make the goods. And throughout the recipe there will be instructions like, "Salt to taste," or something like that. That's where our personally inspiration may come in to the mix. Sure there are chefs out there who don't follow recipes, but that is because they are already very familiar with gustatory stuff. They don't just start throwing flavors together, they know certain flavor formulas that work and they exploit them. Similarly with music. There most certainly is a formula for writing a baroque concerto. You've got the tutti, the ritornello, the continuo, etc. They work together in very set ways. You can't listen to Vivaldi and tell me this guy wasn't using a very established formula. That doesn't mean his stuff isn't great. The mandolin concertos really rock the house!

When it comes to melody, there are no rules or formulae.

Melody is the ONLY aspect of music for which this is true.

What Goldenavatar is talking about is mainly form, but also partly trends; At certain periods of time, particular melodies are popular, and composers were also keen (and usually very able) improvisors.

Theme and Variation has long been the most difficult form to master - even Mozart and Beethoven wrote very few works that are rhapsodical in nature, but when they did, they wrote superlative examples.

Writing Themes and Variations is a way of learning how to write and develop melodies - but ultilmately it is the ultimate art in music.

Timbre is largely taste, and combining sounds is an enjoyable form of alchemy.

Anyone can write a piece in standard song format, and it's not too tricky to extend that form to sonata form or more complex forms, but "free-form" is a waste of time and almost always ends up as noodle. Strict structures always work best in Western music - people use cliches because they work.

Harmony is just filling in the dots - but there are black arts to this too, as harmonic development can provide a drive for the music that is detectable as a kind of pulse that can enhance rhythm. Unless your name is Stravinsky, however, harmony, like form, works best when subjected to strict rules.

Rhythm is somewhat harder, and requires a special skill almost separate to melody. I feel annoyed when I hear so many pieces composed using a mathematical formula for rhythm - it's got no soul, man!

But Melody is the Holy Grail and should always come first when writing.

Write the tunes you like the sound of

Edited by Certif1ed

BePinkTheater wrote: Goldenavatar wrote: Do not listen to these wierdos who say there is no formula for writing music, they clearly don't know much about music. There are MOST CERTAINLY RULES! Did Bach just sit down and totally make crap up? Well he probably did, but it was a very formulaic approach. Why do you think there are different genres and styles of music? The reason is because there are different rules and formulas for each one. There ARE rules for blues. There ARE rules for Baroque. There ARE rules for Jazz. Anyone who claims that music is obtained by just doing whatever the hell you want is musically illiterate. They may be able to come up with some interesting stuff occassionally but that will be the exception. So if you want to learn to write some music you just need to learn the rules of the style you want to write. I personally would suggest, if you have not done so, take some college level music theory classes. That helped me tremendously. One thing you will learn is tonal harmony from a classical perspective. Since prog artists are often influenced by classical forms, this would be very beneficial. You have to learn to walk before you can run. Learning the basics of tonal harmony will help when you get to the point when you want to start breaking the rules. You can't break the rules if you don't know the rules. Plus, once you know the rules for writing a 4 voice chorale in the style of Bach, anything you write will sound good. I'm not kidding. 4 voice chorales will then lead to keyboard pieces and then on to your own instruments. When I was taking music theory I would write chorales and have no idea what they would sound like (I have not taken an ear training course yet). Then when I heard them I was always amazed that they sounded so pleasing. All because I followed the rules One thing I've found in my own experience is that it's much easier for me to write starting with a harmonic basis for the song. When I was a bit more inexperienced I always thought you just come up with a melody in your head and then add to it. That has proven to be much more difficult for me. Now I try to come up with a chordal model first and then add to that. Also, my teachers always say, "Don't try and be creative," when you are first starting out. Start off doing the very cliche stuff. This will give you a firmer grasp on how harmony works. Plus most works are NOT very complicated harmonically. That includes prog. Most tunes follow very standard harmonic progressions. For example pretty much every jazz tune in the world is based on ii-V7-I chord progressions. Sure there are more things going on, but those are usually ornamental things, not the basis for the work. Chew on that! Good to know coming formt he guy wiht 30 posts   There are rules, and noone said otherwise. But they are genreal rules of music. The modal systems, inversions, posotive/negative chord changes, time signitures and such. And there are formulas( 1,4,5; 1,5,2,7; ect...) but those just end up sound like repetative sh*t. He needs to have either a great understanding of theory, or a miraculus connection with his intrument which wil make its 'sing' what ever he hears in his head( he obviously doesn have the latter or he wouldnt have starded the tread)   It jsut takes practice, you'll get it man

 

I didn't realise the number of my posts translated into writing ability and understanding of music. But don't worry I'll keep posting, and pretty soon I'll be the next Mozart.

Find the golden middleroad by organised, techniqueful theory and creative, original experimenting. When you are writing a song, one thing that is quite required is knowledge of scales, and of degrees (I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,etc.). Once you learn about dominants and sub-dominants, things will get quite easier.

When I really am like "Hm, let's write a song" I start with the harmony. I pick a chord that sounds good (any chord) from a key I just feel like playing, then add some more chords. To me, harmony is one of the most important factors and my songs often contain a lot of chord changes and scale changes.

I use a synthesizer to add the drums. So, I get a general idea of what I want the melody to sound like, and add the drums according to the mood I want. Then I put a lot of time in the melody, although it often becomes a lot of improvisation because I hate repeating melodies.

That's one of my approaches. Starting with the harmony. Other approaches are just playing a riff (on guitar) or some sequence, then build on that. Sometimes I also use the "make a random chord" approach but only on guitar because I just can't get myself to do so on piano - too much insight on piano theory (this is a good example of why too much theory can be a bad thing).


If you really want to make your song sound good, take time when you add the melody. It's easy to just play something in the scale once you've got the harmony (I used to do this and sometimes still do) but when you really put time in inventing the melody, it shows.

Obviously, this differs for people - others might say harmony is bullsh*t and just arrange their harmony to their melody. I did this once, and people like it.

I guess I'm talented